The Biden Binder

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Gary Childress
Posts: 2719
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by Gary Childress »

mickthinks wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:02 pm
But Newsmax has simply perfected a business strategy seen throughout the right-wing press. Everywhere you turn, Republican luminaries and storied publications are renting their email lists to quacks hocking phony cures for Alzheimer’s disease and financial conmen promising a path to riches for just a small fee. Commentators ranging from the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones to the podcaster Joe Rogan to the “cool kid’s philosopher” Ben Shapiro are all hocking brain pills of dubious effect. If you watch a few Fox commercial breaks, you’ll hear all about the purported benefits of predatory reverse mortgages and how gold is the investment you need to protect yourself from the coming market crash.

Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture | Media Matters
When it comes down to it, it seems that it's all about money and race or ethnicity in American politics with both Republicans and Democrats accusing each other of racism and of representing the wealthy. And it does seem like both camps have wealthy backers as well as some degree of racial and ethnic diversity in their constituents (though it seems like the Democrats possess somewhat more ethnic and racial diversity within their ranks). Right now the key difference for me is that the Democrats seem to be more sympathetic to contemporary academia, science and technology whereas the Republicans are conspicuously not so much so. Knowledge (or at least what appears to be so) is a powerful ally.
Gary Childress
Posts: 2719
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: The Biden Binder

Post by Gary Childress »

Impenitent wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:58 am Image

-Imp
One problem with memes is that they leave out a lot of context and nuance and deal with incredibly simplified caricatures of issues--like any propaganda poster of old. For example, the "anti-establishment" attitudes of the hippie movement were largely in response to the Vietnam war and civil rights movements, the former arguably an atrocity and the latter without a doubt a bonified movement toward true social justice. To say that the left is "pro-establishment" now because they back the CDC's and WHO's methods of fighting the pandemic is a bit of a misnomer. When it comes down to it, it's not "establishment" in and of itself that is the problem or ever was the problem but what the "establishment" was doing. I think that's a critical difference between what is happening now and what was happening then. It comes down to whether or not we want to live in a society that embraces diversity and cooperation; and embraces the latest scientific theories and beliefs or if we would rather slow progress down or even (for some in the extreme--reactionaries) turn back the clock to days when things were perceived as being better (hence the term MAGA). I think progressives and liberals tend to want improvements hastily. Conservatives tend to want to slow that down so that those who lived during the reign of the former "establishment" aren't completely alienated by too rapid a change.
mickthinks
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Augsburg

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by mickthinks »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:53 amAnd it does seem like both camps have wealthy backers ...
Yes, both sides are bad, but anyone who tries to make out that they are as bad as each other is a right winger trying to level a playing field that has the right-wingers struggling to reach the moral high-ground.

Right now the key difference for me is that the Democrats seem to be more sympathetic to contemporary academia, science and technology whereas the Republicans are conspicuously not so much so
Quite! Moderates value science, knowledge and expertise because they value truth. Extremists don't because the truth is their enemy.

... One problem with memes is that they leave out a lot of context and nuance and deal with incredibly simplified caricatures of issues ...
In other words, Impy's memes are the very opposite of what philosophy is about.

What then does Impy think he's doing here in the Philosophy Now Forum ... apart, that is, from making a fool of himself?
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 12867
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:42 am
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:53 amAnd it does seem like both camps have wealthy backers ...
Yes, both sides are bad,
The American view of this puzzles me.

Why are there only ever "two sides"? Why is there not the viewpoint of somebody not in sympathy with the corrupt elites? What is the source of this very American conviction that one has to be either a Democrat or a Republican sympathizer, even when one is not either? :shock: Is it because, having only two relevant political parties, Americans assume that anyone other than those two must be irrelevant?

But it seems to me that there is a broad American consensus, at the same time, that both parties are corrupt, in various ways and to various degrees. So why are they the only alternatives that are ever considered in your public discourse? And what about the truth, as a political orientation?

I suspect the majority of Americans are actually not well-represented by either political party, and the whole political system in the country is ultimately unrelated to what many real Americans believe, think or value.

Can you clairfy?
Gary Childress
Posts: 2719
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by Gary Childress »

mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:42 am
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:53 amAnd it does seem like both camps have wealthy backers ...
Yes, both sides are bad, but anyone who tries to make out that they are as bad as each other is a right winger trying to level a playing field that has the right-wingers struggling to reach the moral high-ground.
I think the whole, "you're either with us or you're one of them" is a pretty extremist approach to human relations. I am not a "right winger".
Gary Childress
Posts: 2719
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:08 pm
mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:42 am
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:53 amAnd it does seem like both camps have wealthy backers ...
Yes, both sides are bad,
The American view of this puzzles me.

Why are there only ever "two sides"? Why is there not the viewpoint of somebody not in sympathy with the corrupt elites? What is the source of this very American conviction that one has to be either a Democrat or a Republican sympathizer, even when one is not either? :shock: Is it because, having only two relevant political parties, Americans assume that anyone other than those two must be irrelevant?

But it seems to me that there is a broad American consensus, at the same time, that both parties are corrupt, in various ways and to various degrees. So why are they the only alternatives that are ever considered in your public discourse? And what about the truth, as a political orientation?

I suspect the majority of Americans are actually not well-represented by either political party, and the whole political system in the country is ultimately unrelated to what many real Americans believe, think or value.

Can you clairfy?
Yes. You are right. The world is made up of more views and possibilities than the two parties in my country represent. A plurality of parties representing different combinations of policies would probably be better.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 12867
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:47 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:08 pm Can you clairfy?
Yes. You are right. The world is made up of more views and possibilities than the two parties in my country represent. A plurality of parties representing different combinations of policies would probably be better.
Thank you, Gary.

It just mystifies me. Why do Americans think and argue in these binary terms? Why, if one finds Biden inadequate, must one be taken for a Trumpist? Why, if one finds Trump's manner offensive, is the only alternative allowed to become a supporter of somebody as inadequate as Biden? What about the position that says, "America (and other places too, of course) has been providing itself with entirely contemptible role models lately, in its political sphere; and it owes its people a better slate of candidates?"

That seems to me to be an eminently correct requirement.
Impenitent
Posts: 3613
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: The Biden Binder

Post by Impenitent »

Image

-Imp
mickthinks
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Augsburg

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by mickthinks »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:08 pm
mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:42 amYes, both sides are bad,
... both parties are corrupt
Er ... isn't that just a different way of putting it? What's to clairfy?
mickthinks
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Augsburg

Re: The Biden Binder

Post by mickthinks »

Not quite, Hannityman. Profit is theft. Private ownership of land is theft. Taxation is paying your dues.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 12867
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:53 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:08 pm
mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:42 amYes, both sides are bad,
... both parties are corrupt
Er ... isn't that just a different way of putting it? What's to clairfy?
Why there is only ever a "both," meaning a two-sided controversy, in the public debate in America? Why is it always either Dems or Repubs?

Doesn't anybody have a third opinion?
mickthinks
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Augsburg

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by mickthinks »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:38 pm
mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:53 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:08 pm... both parties are corrupt
Er ... isn't that just a different way of putting it? What's to clairfy?
Why there is only ever a "both," meaning a two-sided controversy, in the public debate in America? Why is it always either Dems or Repubs?

Doesn't anybody have a third opinion?
When I used the word "both" I wasn't talking about opinions, and neither were you. Neither is It always either Dems or Republicans, but sometimes it can be.

I think you are trying to change the subject. The subject was the cupid dishonesty of conservative politicians and commentators.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 12867
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:36 pm I think you are trying to change the subject. The subject was the cupid dishonesty of conservative politicians and commentators.
Naw. The subject is "The Biden Binder," as sordid a little document as one could imagine.
mickthinks
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Augsburg

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by mickthinks »

The subject is "The Biden Binder

Not here:
But Newsmax has simply perfected a business strategy seen throughout the right-wing press. Everywhere you turn, Republican luminaries and storied publications are renting their email lists to quacks hocking phony cures for Alzheimer’s disease and financial conmen promising a path to riches for just a small fee. Commentators ranging from the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones to the podcaster Joe Rogan to the “cool kid’s philosopher” Ben Shapiro are all hocking brain pills of dubious effect. If you watch a few Fox commercial breaks, you’ll hear all about the purported benefits of predatory reverse mortgages and how gold is the investment you need to protect yourself from the coming market crash.

Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture | Media Matters
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 12867
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Ivermectin and the right-wing media’s con culture

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:54 pm
The subject is "The Biden Binder
Not here:
But Newsmax...
Then the one who is trying to change the subject is not me.
Post Reply