Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:55 pm

Atla wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:57 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:50 am
Atla wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:31 am
There is a Climate Change Industry and there is a Climate Change Denial Industry. $$$ is to be made on both sides, which is the main motivator here, so naturally they would battle each other.

(The fact that climate change happens to be very real, is just a side note here. If anything, it makes people invested in the Climate Change Industry happy, their side will bring in more $$$ on the long run.)
Could you describe this climate change industry and how it makes money?
It takes some skill not to notice a ~$1.5 trillion industry.
Which you can't describe. Is that like the 'higher standard of living industry'? Or the 'decent healthcare industry'? What about the 'equal rights industry'? Or the 'immunisation industry'? The 'airline safety industry'? The 'anti-lead-in-petrol/paint...industry'?

Atla
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Atla » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:42 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:55 pm
Which you can't describe. Is that like the 'higher standard of living industry'? Or the 'decent healthcare industry'? What about the 'equal rights industry'? Or the 'immunisation industry'? The 'airline safety industry'? The 'anti-lead-in-petrol/paint...industry'?
Is this a game where something hasn't been / can't be precisely defined, so we pretend it doesn't exist? And of course mentioning the Climate Change / Global Warming Industry is slightly politically incorrect, so it makes sense that it would drive you up the wall.

Some $$$ can be made via global warming-related policymaking. Do I also have to mention things like renewables or the consulting market etc.
In case you didn't know, not everyone is trying to save the planet, some politicians and businesses might really be in it more for the money. Peddling climate fear is in their interest (which on a side note may actually be useful since global warming is happening).

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:25 am

Atla wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:42 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:55 pm
Which you can't describe. Is that like the 'higher standard of living industry'? Or the 'decent healthcare industry'? What about the 'equal rights industry'? Or the 'immunisation industry'? The 'airline safety industry'? The 'anti-lead-in-petrol/paint...industry'?
Is this a game where something hasn't been / can't be precisely defined, so we pretend it doesn't exist? And of course mentioning the Climate Change / Global Warming Industry is slightly politically incorrect, so it makes sense that it would drive you up the wall.

Some $$$ can be made via global warming-related policymaking. Do I also have to mention things like renewables or the consulting market etc.
In case you didn't know, not everyone is trying to save the planet, some politicians and businesses might really be in it more for the money. Peddling climate fear is in their interest (which on a side note may actually be useful since global warming is happening).
That would be the 'consultant industry' which infects everything these days. Recycling has been around for a very long time. There's nothing wrong with recycling.

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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Atla » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:25 am
That would be the 'consultant industry' which infects everything these days. Recycling has been around for a very long time. There's nothing wrong with recycling.
No, those are some of its components. Read this fairly common expression a few times, or Google it if you never heard of it:

Global Warming Industry

It's slightly politically incorrect, so I imagine you are in pain now.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:56 am

Atla wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:25 am
That would be the 'consultant industry' which infects everything these days. Recycling has been around for a very long time. There's nothing wrong with recycling.
No, those are some of its components. Read this fairly common expression a few times, or Google it if you never heard of it:

Global Warming Industry

It's slightly politically incorrect, so I imagine you are in pain now.
You're an idiot. Slightly disappointing, but not unexpected.

Atla
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Atla » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:14 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:56 am
Atla wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:25 am
That would be the 'consultant industry' which infects everything these days. Recycling has been around for a very long time. There's nothing wrong with recycling.
No, those are some of its components. Read this fairly common expression a few times, or Google it if you never heard of it:

Global Warming Industry

It's slightly politically incorrect, so I imagine you are in pain now.
You're an idiot. Slightly disappointing, but not unexpected.
Don't worry, the pain will subside eventually

Walker
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Walker » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:18 pm

This is an interesting, point-by-point analysis of Climate-Believer Tribalism

The perils of near-tabloid science
https://judithcurry.com/2018/07/22/the- ... more-24240

The model problem

[General circulation] models now dominate discussions of the behavior of the climate system. As with future climate, where no data exist at all, the models promise descriptions of climate change–past and future–without the painful necessity of obtaining supporting observations. The apparent weight given to model behavior in discussions of paleoclimate arises, also, sometimes simply because they are “sophisticated” and difficult to understand, as well as appearing to substitute for missing data.

“That models are incomplete representations of reality is their great power. But they should never be mistaken for the real world.

If a model fails to replicate the climate system over a few decades, the assumption that it is therefore skillful over thousands or millions of years is a non sequitur. Models have thousands of tunable parameters and the ability to make them behave “reasonably” over long time intervals is not in doubt. That error estimates are not easy to make does not mean they are not necessary for interpretation and use of model extrapolations.

Walker
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Walker » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:53 pm

Professor Jordan Peterson on climate change and climate policy at the Cambridge Union

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbvehbomrY


I feel you, Jordan.

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Greta
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Greta » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:59 pm

I live in a land already being hammered by climate change, being a place predicted to be amongst the worst affected. We have had a number of summer days over 45C. When I was young, it was very rare for the temperature to exceed 39C, once every few years. How it's about twenty times each summer. I have one relative who's had to sell half his sheep and is now even struggling to make hay - a family that's tended sheep for generations now facing novel weather conditions that are threatening their liability. Then there's the Samoan in-law whose family has problems: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -samoan-pm

Meanwhile, smug and ignorant people from the north continue to play denialist games - yet they know nothing about physics or meteorology but they know better than the experts. They are yet to feel the brunt of the emerging changes and disbelieve those already impacted.

I cannot speak for all conservatives, but there is a certain type - the climate denialist - that is completely amoral and they don't gave a damn who their false ideas hurt.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:04 am

Greta wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:59 pm
I live in a land already being hammered by climate change, being a place predicted to be amongst the worst affected. We have had a number of summer days over 45C. When I was young, it was very rare for the temperature to exceed 39C, once every few years. How it's about twenty times each summer. I have one relative who's had to sell half his sheep and is now even struggling to make hay - a family that's tended sheep for generations now facing novel weather conditions that are threatening their liability. Then there's the Samoan in-law whose family has problems: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -samoan-pm

Meanwhile, smug and ignorant people from the north continue to play denialist games - yet they know nothing about physics or meteorology but they know better than the experts. They are yet to feel the brunt of the emerging changes and disbelieve those already impacted.

I cannot speak for all conservatives, but there is a certain type - the climate denialist - that is completely amoral and they don't gave a damn who their false ideas hurt.
True. 30 degrees was always considered really hot for a summer temperature here, and didn't happen very often. Last summer we had several days that went above 40! I've never experienced anything like that in my life. It was impossible to buy a fan anywhere--all sold out. I bought one this winter to be on the safe side :)

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:33 am

Walker wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:53 pm
Professor Jordan Peterson on climate change and climate policy at the Cambridge Union

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbvehbomrY


I feel you, Jordan.
WTF? The man's a 'right wing psychologist' (and apparently a warmonger hence the fucking stupid red poppy). i.e. He's an idiot.
The earth is heating up. We know that because we are living it. Go fuck yourself and your greedy, self-serving, evil country. May you have many, many, more Hurricane Katrinas (one a week would be nice for starters, and the bigger the better). And don't expect any sympathy from the rest of the planet.

Walker
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Walker » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:02 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:33 am
Walker wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:53 pm
Professor Jordan Peterson on climate change and climate policy at the Cambridge Union

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbvehbomrY


I feel you, Jordan.
WTF? The man's a 'right wing psychologist' (and apparently a warmonger hence the fucking stupid red poppy). i.e. He's an idiot.
The earth is heating up. We know that because we are living it. Go fuck yourself and your greedy, self-serving, evil country. May you have many, many, more Hurricane Katrinas (one a week would be nice for starters, and the bigger the better). And don't expect any sympathy from the rest of the planet.
Did you observe the faces of the students in the video? You can see on some of the more open faces, those relaxed and unmasked because they are not facing other faces but rather see only open space with two little faces in the distance, and lots of scalps in between, on these faces you can see that Peterson is telling them things that they have never heard before. Never considered before, in the way he is showing.

People react emotionally when the gospel of their religion is challenged.
It’s an emotional thang.

Although those students began learning how to armour themselves in middle school, and maybe some earlier, when not facing the face the societal mask is less rigid.

Don’t be afraid. Dare to delve into the content of the clip.

:)

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:16 am

Walker wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:02 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:33 am
Walker wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:53 pm
Professor Jordan Peterson on climate change and climate policy at the Cambridge Union

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbvehbomrY


I feel you, Jordan.
WTF? The man's a 'right wing psychologist' (and apparently a warmonger hence the fucking stupid red poppy). i.e. He's an idiot.
The earth is heating up. We know that because we are living it. Go fuck yourself and your greedy, self-serving, evil country. May you have many, many, more Hurricane Katrinas (one a week would be nice for starters, and the bigger the better). And don't expect any sympathy from the rest of the planet.
Did you observe the faces of the students in the video? You can see on some of the more open faces, those relaxed and unmasked because they are not facing other faces but rather see only open space with two little faces in the distance, and lots of scalps in between, on these faces you can see that Peterson is telling them things that they have never heard before. Never considered before, in the way he is showing.

People react emotionally when the gospel of their religion is challenged.
It’s an emotional thang.

Although those students began learning how to armour themselves in middle school, and maybe some earlier, when not facing the face the societal mask is less rigid.

Don’t be afraid. Dare to delve into the content of the clip.

:)
You are a fucking lunatic.

Walker
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Walker » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:29 pm

Armoring (armouring).

Some folks embark as a lark to de-armour, but I say if you can live with it there’s less pain in numbness, which is likely why Trungpa Rinpoche said if you haven’t yet begun, don’t, although he wasn’t referring specifically to emotional armouring.

Wilhelm Reich coined the term.

Fascinating introduction.
Explore, or stop here if you must.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich

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Greta
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Greta » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:37 pm

The reason the students looked upset was the lack of balance. No mention of Koch, Murdoch, Trump and the like creating deliberate misinformation and divisions to protect their vested interests. No mention of the very rapid improvements in solar storage - at all.

Peterson treats a scientific issue as sociology, with fame and ego sending him off into LaLa Land.

His main answer is terrible - to increase world population to increase the number of "geniuses" (never mind the hidden, unused geniuses in developed nations whose education is being neglected).

His other big idea, to massively improve education and financial standing of young people in developing countries, faces the same problem that he scoffed about regarding renewable energy - "good luck with that". People have stressed the need to educate women in developing countries for how many decades now?

JP is smart but wildly overrated and seemingly now affected by hubris. You can drive a truck through his ill-considered arguments here.

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