Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Izzywizzy
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Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by Izzywizzy »

I ask this question, not because I am against science, in fact i love it.. but because i am against those who aren`t scientists yet fancy themselves as know alls because they only believe in their bias doctrines of scientism..Most real contemporary evolved scientists will tell you they can disagree with the cast in stone opinions of their superiors of yesturyear science..but they get no voice in an establishment as well run and controlled as any other..lets not lose sight that science though necessary for us isn`t the alpha and omega of knowledge anymore than any other establishment..real authentic science has an open mind not a close rigid bias one.
converge
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by converge »

Because a reasoning mind believes in reasonable things, not magical energy that has been proven conclusively to not exist, or secret occult powers, or massive worldwide conspiracies with zero evidence. The reason your "most real contemporary evolved scientists" have no voice in mainstream science is because they're not doing science; they're making up silly stories to sell books to gullible people. Science requires research, experiments, and evidence. Making up a bunch of nonsense and yelling that everyone who disagrees with you is an evil conspirator isn't science. That's called religion.
Thundril
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by Thundril »

Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?
By whom is it so deemed?
It's useful to identify your target before firing at it.
chaz wyman
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by chaz wyman »

Its also worth defining scientism.
I have only ever seen the use of the term in a purely pejorative sense.
Scientism is not science, but the tendency to attempt to apply scientific or pseudo-scientific methods to cases where it is inappropriate.
I don't think Izzy appreciates the meaning of scientism
So the answer as to be a resounding NO!

From Wiki.

The term is used in either of two equally pejorative directions:[4][5]
To indicate the improper usage of science or scientific claims[6] in contexts where science might not apply,[7] such as when the topic is perceived to be beyond the scope of scientific inquiry; or there is insufficient empirical evidence to justify scientific conclusions. In this case it is a counter-argument to appeals to scientific authority.
To refer to "the belief that the methods of natural science, or the categories and things recognized in natural science, form the only proper elements in any philosophical or other inquiry,"[5] with a concomitant "elimination of the psychological dimensions of experience."[8][9] It thus expresses a position critical of (at least the more extreme expressions of) positivism.[10][11]
Izzywizzy
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by Izzywizzy »

chaz wyman wrote
I don't think Izzy appreciates the meaning of scientism
haha I have yet to see your evidence why I don`t appreciate scientism or even read your evidence that you in fact know what scientism means and what your are talking about. i agree with you that i don`t appreciate the dogma of scientism I explained to you.

Converge plays this question as being null and void..converge thinks he/she can speak for science..i rest my case

[quoteBecause a reasoning mind believes in reasonable things, not magical energy that has been proven conclusively to not exist, or secret occult powers][/quote]

umm a reasoning scientist and mind knows and has proven occult powers,,you just lost this debate converge..bye bye..its like saying logic is only in the realm of science..you will find logical fictional authors.. its a shame none of you have read Karl Popper. Especially considering this is supposed to be a philosophy forum.
converge
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by converge »

Izzywizzy wrote: umm a reasoning scientist and mind knows and has proven occult powers,,you just lost this debate converge..bye bye..
I lolled. The double-comma was a nice touch. :lol:
chaz wyman
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by chaz wyman »

Izzywizzy wrote:chaz wyman wrote
I don't think Izzy appreciates the meaning of scientism
haha I have yet to see your evidence why I don`t appreciate scientism or even read your evidence that you in fact know what scientism means and what your are talking about. i agree with you that i don`t appreciate the dogma of scientism I explained to you.

Converge plays this question as being null and void..converge thinks he/she can speak for science..i rest my case

DAH! Scientism is not science. No scientist would ever claim to do scientism. Scientism is a dirty word.
Therefore scientism is not the Holy Grail of anything. It is always pejorative.
I suggest you LOOK at the evidence I posted, then you will learn the meaning of scientism and then adjust your question.

[quoteBecause a reasoning mind believes in reasonable things, not magical energy that has been proven conclusively to not exist, or secret occult powers]

Yes and 'scientism', among other things, is a word used by people who reject the obsession our society has with science - particularly bad science - science applied to areas where is so reductionist as to produce useless results.


umm a reasoning scientist and mind knows and has proven occult powers,,you just lost this debate converge..bye bye..its like saying logic is only in the realm of science..you will find logical fictional authors.. its a shame none of you have read Karl Popper. Especially considering this is supposed to be a philosophy forum.

I have read most of his Enemies of the Open Society and every page of Conjectures and Refutations. I have also read Thomas Kuhn whose Structure of Scientific Revolutions is probably more relevant to this debate.
But until you learn to figure out the actual usage of Scientism you will not make any sense.


[/quote]

PS: I think we might agree in our attitude to science - it has its limits, and when it is over used it tends towards what people call scientism. But no reasoning mind wants to deem scientism as a holy grail. No one seeks to be scientistic - especially not scientists.
Izzywizzy
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by Izzywizzy »

Chaz wyman wrote
PS: I think we might agree in our attitude to science - it has its limits, and when it is over used it tends towards what people call scientism. But no reasoning mind wants to deem scientism as a holy grail. No one seeks to be scientistic - especially not scientists
Fair comment and thank you
chaz wyman
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by chaz wyman »

Izzywizzy wrote:Chaz wyman wrote
PS: I think we might agree in our attitude to science - it has its limits, and when it is over used it tends towards what people call scientism. But no reasoning mind wants to deem scientism as a holy grail. No one seeks to be scientistic - especially not scientists
Fair comment and thank you
No problemo.
i blame blame
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by i blame blame »

Izzywizzy wrote:I ask this question, not because I am against science, in fact i love it.. but because i am against those who aren`t scientists yet fancy themselves as know alls because they only believe in their bias doctrines of scientism..Most real contemporary evolved scientists will tell you they can disagree with the cast in stone opinions of their superiors of yesturyear science..but they get no voice in an establishment as well run and controlled as any other..lets not lose sight that science though necessary for us isn`t the alpha and omega of knowledge anymore than any other establishment..real authentic science has an open mind not a close rigid bias one.
You'd better back up your disagreement with evidence.
converge
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by converge »

I think it's important to note that true open-mindedness means being open to the idea that something might not be true, not just being open to the idea that everything you hear about is true. Skepticism is part of open-mindedness; in fact, I'd say it's a requirement. Believing in bigfoot, psychic powers, the Loch Ness monster, faeries, aliens and witches does not mean you're open-minded. If you were truly open-minded, you would be open to the idea that all these fanciful things might just be children's stories, even if it makes you sad to let go of them. If you were open-minded, you'd take each case without judgment and make a decision on whether or not it's real by examining the evidence and thinking reasonably about whether it's really possible.
chaz wyman
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by chaz wyman »

converge wrote:I think it's important to note that true open-mindedness means being open to the idea that something might not be true, not just being open to the idea that everything you hear about is true. Skepticism is part of open-mindedness; in fact, I'd say it's a requirement. Believing in bigfoot, psychic powers, the Loch Ness monster, faeries, aliens and witches does not mean you're open-minded. If you were truly open-minded, you would be open to the idea that all these fanciful things might just be children's stories, even if it makes you sad to let go of them. If you were open-minded, you'd take each case without judgment and make a decision on whether or not it's real by examining the evidence and thinking reasonably about whether it's really possible.
Indeed. I get pissed off by people trying to tell me that I'm not open minded because I don't immediately believe in errant bullshit; astrology, crystal healing, divination....
Izzywizzy
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by Izzywizzy »

I get pissed off by people trying to tell me that I'm not open minded because I don't immediately believe in errant bullshit; astrology, crystal healing, divination
Yet you have no inkling how pissed off everyday people are by the errant bullshit of science, medical science that releases thousands of new drugs on the market, only to take thousands of them off the market within a year of side effects and premature deaths..you don`t mind that nuclear stations are placed and built in tsunami pathways like happened in japan either? wow..talk about head in the sand anal retentive blinkered thinking.. you win the first prize along with converge of course who is a close a runner up for the naivety scientism religion you both follow without question like sheeple to the slaughter.. :roll:

ps as for chaz`s anti "crystals" comment..he will be shocked to discover science uses lasers incorporating those very crystals he abhors (chuckle) : he has obviously never heard of how radios work either (SHOCK :shock: ) every radio has a small crystal within and in order to connect to wavelengths..its not just electrical wiring its crystals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
Chaz how old are you? most over 15yrs know this common fact

as for iblame he/she gets the prize for most innocuous thinking
chaz wyman
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by chaz wyman »

Izzywizzy wrote:
I get pissed off by people trying to tell me that I'm not open minded because I don't immediately believe in errant bullshit; astrology, crystal healing, divination
Yet you have no inkling how pissed off everyday people are by the errant bullshit of science, medical science that releases thousands of new drugs on the market,
Name one that is bad and compare it to the thousands that are good. Then we can take about it. But generalising is childish
only to take thousands of them off the market within a year of side effects and premature deaths..you don`t mind that nuclear stations are placed and built in tsunami pathways

That's city planning and politics.

like happened in japan either? wow..talk about head in the sand anal retentive blinkered thinking.. you win the first prize along with converge of course who is a close a runner up for the naivety scientism religion you both follow without question like sheeple to the slaughter.. :roll:


I can't see how this relates to what I said.
I'm skeptical of science too.


ps as for chaz`s anti "crystals" comment..he will be shocked to discover science uses lasers incorporating those very crystals he abhors (chuckle) : he has obviously never heard of how radios work either (SHOCK :shock: ) every radio has a small crystal within and in order to connect to wavelengths..its not just electrical wiring its crystals

I know something about lasers and crystals, and how they relate. So no surprises.
I can't see why you are mentioning this. This is not the same as looking into a crystal to see your future, or sticking one up your jacksy to cure bowel cancer is it?
I think you might need to learn how to be more discriminating and selective.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
Chaz how old are you? most over 15yrs know this common fact

Swap the digits of that number and you will have it. WHo says I don't know 'this common fact'? I was building crystal radios before your daddy was spilling sperm.


as for iblame he/she gets the prize for most innocuous thinking

If you weren't so keen to make sad attempts to criticise me, you might have realised that the errant bullshit I was taking about can be found here.
http://www.astroawareness.com/crystals/allabout.html

And if I were to match your method of attack I would now be insisting that you believed the above.

Fac ut Vivas





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HexHammer
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Re: Why is Scientism deemed the HOLY GRAIL of a reasoning mind?

Post by HexHammer »

Izzywizzy wrote:I ask this question, not because I am against science, in fact i love it.. but because i am against those who aren`t scientists yet fancy themselves as know alls because they only believe in their bias doctrines of scientism..Most real contemporary evolved scientists will tell you they can disagree with the cast in stone opinions of their superiors of yesturyear science..but they get no voice in an establishment as well run and controlled as any other..lets not lose sight that science though necessary for us isn`t the alpha and omega of knowledge anymore than any other establishment..real authentic science has an open mind not a close rigid bias one.
Because science has such weird things like evidence, "beyond reasonable doubt", double blind tests, repeatable test ..etch, all such weird things that the O-so-wise-and-knowledgeable philosophers doesn't have to bother with.
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