INFINITY

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Age
Posts: 20198
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Re: INFINITY

Post by Age »

seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm
bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:48 pm
First of all, how is the infinite void...

(which is metaphorically represented by the blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration)

...not nothing?
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The blackened area surrounding the universe in the illustration does not exist.
It is nothingness.
Yes, that's what I said, it is an infinite "nothingness."
And, that is what I thought you were saying too.

It is like "bobmax" is so FIXED and FIXATED on its OWN BELIEFS that it can NOT SEE and HEAR what is ACTUALLY being SAID and WRITTEN here.
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm But it is a nothingness that, again, somehow manages to continuously "make room" for every speck of reality (be it mind or matter) that has ever (or potentially will ever) come into existence.
Three things here:

1. The 'nothingness' can NOT be infinite, as there EXISTS some 'thing', as well. But if you rephrased your 'nothingness' goes on forever, or extends forever, infinitely, OUT beyond the area of some 'thing', then that would make FAR MORE SENSE, and COULD in fact BE 'a truth'. But, you are saying 'it' now, and as 'it' now stands, 'an infinite nothingness' is just too EASILY and too SIMPLY REFUTED and thus False, Wrong, AND Incorrect.

2. Because of what thee Mind IS, EXACTLY, and how It works, EXACTLY, what 'Reality' IS, and what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE 'Truth' IS here, EXACTLY is ALREADY well UNDERSTOOD and KNOWN.

3. The 'nothingness' is NOT some area, nor room, which 'reality' moves into. 'Nothingness' is just A PART OF what REALLY ALREADY EXISTS.
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm
bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm Yes, it is unthinkable.
But it is unthinkable because it is impossible to go beyond the limit with the thought.
Speak for yourself.
Well said.
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm
bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm The universe is not born in the void, but by being born it creates space.
And therefore it does not expand into the void, but creates the void and matter.
No, it is what the astrophysicists call the "fabric" of spacetime of which matter is a part of (and suspended within) that is expanding.
Have so-called "astrophysicists" EVER said absolutely ANY thing that turned out to be False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect?

If yes, then could what they SAY, and CALL, here also turn out to be False, Wrong, or Incorrect?

If no, then WHY NOT?

Oh, and by the way, terms like 'space', 'time', AND 'spacetime' are 'things', which in the days when this was being written, were 'things' so-called "astrophysicists", "scientists", and most human beings, could NOT define and describe IN AGREEMENT, thus ACCURATELY anyway.

In fact, in the days when this is being written, when these 'people' are asked, 'What are these 'things', EXACTLY?' the Honest ones would say, 'I am NOT YET sure', OR, would EXPLAIN 'them each' in GREAT and ACCURATE DETAIL, which would FIT and FORM a Picture PERFECT illustration, while the "others" and Dishonest ones would 'try to' portray a sense of ALREADY KNOWING, and then just BABBLE on. Like as can be OBSERVED and WITNESSED, CLEARLY, throughout this thread, and forum.
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm And it expands into an ever-receptive infinite void of absolute nothingness - a void that is not a part of the (informationally-based) fabric that underpins and binds this bubble...
SO, AGAIN, you want to SAY and CLAIM there is this MAGICAL BUBBLE, which is SURROUNDED by this MAGICAL BOUNDARY. BUT, 'you' and NO "other" has even ATTEMPTED to EXPLAIN and DESCRIBE what that MAGICAL BOUNDARY could be MADE UP OF, EXACTLY.

And the REASON FOR THIS IS BLATANTLY OBVIOUS. Well to SOME of 'us' ANYWAY.

Image

...together.[/quote]

So, AGAIN, you want to BELIEVE and CLAIM 'they' are SEPARATE. So, EXPLAIN and DESCRIBE HOW, EXACTLY, these TWO 'things' COULD BE SEPARATE.
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm Granted, the universe appears to have created void (or empty space) between the stars and planets, however, it is not actually empty. And that's because the seemingly empty space on the inside of the bubble depicted above is, itself, woven from, again, the fabric of spacetime, and simply creates the "illusion" of being empty.
LOL The words 'fabric of spacetime' are just words MADE UP, like the 'God' word, to portray an aura of AUTHORITY that one KNOWS what they are TALKING ABOUT. BUT, as I have PROVEN countless times ALREADY, just throughout this forum, WHEN CLAIMS are CHALLENGED or QUESTIONED, the one making the CLAIM FALLS to ABSOLUTE PIECES.

Now, the so-called 'empty space' between stars and planets may NOT be 'actually empty'. BUT, there HAS to A 'distance' between 'matter', itself, OTHERWISE there would be ONE 'piece of matter', ONLY. And, this 'space' HAS TO BE, literally, COMPLETELY 'empty' of 'matter'. Therefore, an 'area' of 'nothingness', or NO 'matter' EXISTS.

BUT, to IMAGINE that there is an area/bubble of 'matter', with A 'boundary' surrounding 'this bubble', and absolutely NOTHING on the "other side" of 'this bubble' is to IMAGINE what is ILLOGICAL, NONSENSICAL, and NOT even a POSSIBILITY, logically AND empirically/physically, let alone could even be an ACTUALITY.
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm
bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:15 pm There is no infinity.
Because the nothingness does not exist.
Sure, it doesn't exist in any measurable sense, but, again, "something" of an infinite nature is functioning as a sort of "containment medium" in which an ever-growing, ever-expanding reality is suspended.
WHY do you USE the 'reality' word here?

Do you think or BELIEVE that it might portray some sense of MORE 'truth' to YOUR BELIEFS and CLAIMS here?

If you do, then just be AWARE that it, REALLY, does NOT.

In YOUR little 'world' and TINY 'perspective' of 'things' here, this EVER-growing, EVER-expanding (which is NONSENSICAL and ILLOGICAL in and of itself, in two ways, by the way), WHY is (YOUR) 'reality' only in a TINY 'area'? WHY is ONLY the tiny area, "being suspended", 'reality', and thus 'the area' BEYOND that tiny area NOT 'reality'?
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm The bottom line is that infinity can be visualized (by me, anyway) as existing in the form of an infinite and unbounded void of absolute nothingness that will forever give-way (make room) for that which we call "reality."
1. ONLY 'you' call that TINY 'area' "reality". Which is even MORE ABSURD considering the FACT that you are 'trying to' FIGHT and ARGUE for 'the area' BEYOND that 'tiny areal' as being REAL, ALSO.

2. Visualizing 'infinity' is as SIMPLE and EASY as visualizing 'the finite'. BOTH EXIST, so being ABLE TO SEE one of 'them' is just as EASY and SIMPLE as SEEING 'the other'.

3. The way you visualize 'infinity' here is just an IMAGINED 'visualization' as you are NOT LOOKING AT, and thus NOT SEEING, what is ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True, and REAL.

4. It is ABSURD, ILLOGICAL, and NONSENSICAL to have an infinite and unbounded void of absolute nothingness YET it is, supposedly, BOUNDED by an area of so-called "reality". What you are 'TRYING TO' IS OBVIOUS. But, UNTIL you FIX these types of MISTAKES you will NEVER get taken SERIOUSLY.
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm (Obviously, we both could be full of crap. And yes, I know: "speak for yourself" :D)
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You BOTH are just SPEAKING from THE WAY you BOTH LOOK AT and SEE 'things'.

Now, if ANY one wants to just SPEAK OF ONLY 'that', which is ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY True, Right, AND Correct, then all that one REALLY needs to do is just LOOK AT and SEE 'things' from ANOTHER WAY, or from ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE.

And, to LEARN, and UNDERSTAND FULLY, HOW to LOOK AT and SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, or from thee One and ONLY True, Right, AND Correct perspective, I have ALREADY OFFERED UP ASSISTANCE.

I just WAIT, PATIENTLY, for 'those' who are Truly OPEN, and Truly CURIOS.

And, by the way, I am NO RUSH AT ALL, HERE.
bobmax
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:38 am

Re: INFINITY

Post by bobmax »

A "something" is such only because there is something else.
At least a place where that something is. Without a place there is no something.

The universe is nowhere.
So it's not something.

Thinking of it as something is a mistake.
We mistakenly imagine that we are ideally placed "outside" the universe in order to affirm that it is something.
But this is only a hallucination of rational thinking, which can only think something.
While the universe is certainly not something.

But the rational mind cannot accept this, for the simple reason that for rationality what is not something is nothing.
Age
Posts: 20198
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: INFINITY

Post by Age »

bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am A "something" is such only because there is something else.
Which can, obviously, include the 'nothing'.
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am At least a place where that something is. Without a place there is no something.
Circular reasoning/arguing.
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am The universe is nowhere.
The Universe may well be 'nowhere' but HERE.
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am So it's not something.
So, following "bobmax's" so-called "logic" here, the Universe is NOT some 'thing', which would literally mean that the Universe is no 'thing'.
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am Thinking of it as something is a mistake.
So, to "bobmax" ANY one thinking the Universe as 'something' IS a MISTAKE.

Which can be CORRECT HOW, EXACTLY "bobmax"?

By thinking of the Universe as 'nothing'? Or by some other way?
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am We mistakenly imagine that we are ideally placed "outside" the universe in order to affirm that it is something.
WHY do 'you' do this, "bobmax"?

Most people I know do NOT do such a thing as this AT ALL.
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am But this is only a hallucination of rational thinking, which can only think something.
So, to "bobmax";

'Hallucinations' COME FROM 'rational thinking'.

And,

'Rational thinking' can ONLY 'think something'.

To "others" 'hallucinations' COME FROM 'Irrational thinking', AND, 'rational thinking' IS just 'thinking', 'rationally'.
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am While the universe is certainly not something.
If the Universe is NOT some 'thing', then what, EXACTLY, is 'the Universe', to you, "bobmax"?
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:55 am But the rational mind cannot accept this, for the simple reason that for rationality what is not something is nothing.
So, are you saying that 'your' 'irrational mind' accepts what you are SAY and CLAIM here?

If yes, then okay.

But if no, then what are you SAYING and CLAIMING here, EXACTLY?
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