What is the Source of the Universe ?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
socratus
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:00 am
Location: Israel
Contact:

What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by socratus » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:35 am

What is the Source of the Universe ?

In the book “Evolution of Physics” Einstein and Infeld wrote:
“ We have the laws, but we are not aware what the body
of reference system they belong to, and all our physical
construction appears erected on sand ”.
They are right. Why?
Because :
The Universe ( as a whole ) is Two- Measured,
there are two Worlds: Vacuum and Gravity.
What was before Vacuum or Gravity ?
Does Gravity exist in Vacuum or vice versa?
No answer.
== .
Fact and Speculation.
1.
Fact.
The detected material mass of the matter in the Universe is so small
(the average density of all substance in the Universe is approximately
p=10^-30 g/sm^3) that it cannot ‘close’ the Universe into sphere and
therefore our Universe as whole is ‘open’, endless Vacuum.
But what to do with the infinite Universe the physicists don't know.
The concept of infinite/ eternal means nothing
to a scientists. They do not understand how they could
draw any real, concrete conclusions from this characteristic.
A notions of ‘more, less, equally, similar ’ could not
be conformed to a word infinity or eternity.
The Infinity / Eternity is something, that has no borders,
has no discontinuity; it could not be compared to anything.
Considering so, scientists came to conclusion that the
infinity/eternity defies to a physical and mathematical definition
and cannot be considered in real processes.
Therefore they have proclaimed the strict requirement
(on a level of censor of the law):
« If we want that the theory would be correct,
the infinity/eternity should be eliminated » .
Thus they direct all their mathematical abilities,
all intellectual energy to the elimination of infinity.
Therefore they invented an abstract ‘dark matter and dark energy’.
They say: ‘ 90% or more of the matter in the Universe is unseen.’
And nobody knows what it is.
2.
Speculation.
Unknown ‘dark matter ‘ it is matter which makes up the difference
between observed mass of a galaxies and calculated mass……
which….will …’close ‘ ….the Universe into sphere, as …….
as……the astrophysicists want.
Question:
How can the 99% of the Hidden ( dark ) matter in the Universe
create the 1% of the Visible matter ?
========================== . .
#
Now it is considered that Newton / Einstein's laws
of gravitation are basis of physics, the first laws of Universe.
But the detected material mass of the matter in the Universe
is so small that gravitation field, as whole, doesn't work
in the Universe.
So, the Newton / Einstein's laws of gravitation are correct only
in the small and local part of Universe and we cannot take them
as the first ones.
What can the first law of the Universe be?
All galaxies , all gravitation fields exist in Vacuum (T=0K).
Gravitational effects took place only in a small area of Infinite Vacuum.
It is impossible to use GRT to the Universe as a whole.
Vacuum is “ The first law of the Universe.”
The Physics first of all is Aether / Vacuum.
Vacuum is the Source of the Universe .
Vacuum is the Absolute Reference Frame.
Without Eternal and Infinite Vacuum Physics makes no sense.
========== . .
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. Socratus.
==================================

nameless
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Here! Now!

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by nameless » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:15 am

I have challenged your assumptions and, as yet, you have not successfully answered the challenge (re: the non existing 'vacuum'), yet you forge ahead in new threads with the same old 'questionable' (refuted?) premises in support of the same old 'questionable' hypotheses.
Is your 'theory' bringing in money? Are there such benefits that it is not feasible to alter it. They sayt that everyone has their price, have you found yours?
I think, if you can effectively defend the existence of your hypothesized 'vacuum', now is a good time to do it. In which case I would thank you for the education, and move on.
Wouldn't it be time, if you cannot support your 'vacuum hypothesis', to redesign/tweak your 'theory' to remain in accord with current scientific understandings? You might want to try some mescaline or LSD, they help to 'enhance perspective' some. You might find the cure for orange prickle, yet!
Otherwise, the pit just gets deeper and deeper until the light disappears completely.
It almost seems like a case of cognitive constipation...
Personally, i love the bittersweet tears on having to let go of an old and comfortable theory (like losing an old friend), and replacing them with the joys of a meaningful critical update (and the new world thereby presented), and the new stretch-marks on the brain!
So, unless you've got something for me supporting your 'vacuum', I've said what i had to say.
Raises glass and toasts socratus/Israel; to many stretch-marks on our brains!
Cheers!

User avatar
ray
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:45 pm

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by ray » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:19 pm

Good Question by Israel Sadovnik. Socratus.
socratus wrote:
What is the Source of the Universe ?

The Supreme Being is the Source of the Universe.

Who else?

We have no other candidate.

User avatar
Aetixintro
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:44 pm
Contact:

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by Aetixintro » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:15 pm

ray: "We have no other candidate."
This isn't entirely true, I believe. If the source of the universe simply is this dense point inflating itself, it can be a kind of candidate, especially if it could have been the case of a closed universe, one that would come back into this dense point. God is certainly the entity that gives a good explanation for making the whole thing go around in that there may be several universes and rebirth of souls and a variety of possibilities that may lie with the God-entity.

So, I'm with ray, I stick with the explanation of God until something better comes up. (I doubt this will happen in my life-time, though.)

User avatar
Rortabend
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:36 am
Location: Cambridge

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by Rortabend » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:34 am

Your mind has not evolved to understand the origins of the universe. Try to remember that you are an intelligent ape.

nameless
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Here! Now!

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by nameless » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:56 pm

Rortabend wrote:Your mind has not evolved to understand the origins of the universe.
Is your's?
The only way that you can assert such a thing, paradoxically, is by understanding the "origins of the Universe", and how that 'understanding' relates to the present state of a (particular?) mind's 'evolution'.
I can see no stable logical foundation for such a remark.
It's rather like the observation that; "life is better than the alternative". Having never experienced the 'alternative', the assertion is mere idle speculation and 'beliefs'.

User avatar
Rortabend
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:36 am
Location: Cambridge

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by Rortabend » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:17 pm

The only way that you can assert such a thing, paradoxically, is by understanding the "origins of the Universe", and how that 'understanding' relates to the present state of a (particular?) mind's 'evolution'.
How so? Just because you can understand the question 'What is the source of universe?' it doesn't follow that you will be able to formulate an answer or even understand it if it were given. Religions have been speculating about the origins of the universe for millenia and the best they have come up with is some angry guy with a white beard sitting on a cloud.

What I am suggesting is something like the mysterian approach to consciousness advocated by Colin McGinn.

nameless
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Here! Now!

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by nameless » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:57 pm

Rortabend wrote:
The only way that you can assert such a thing, paradoxically, is by understanding the "origins of the Universe", and how that 'understanding' relates to the present state of a (particular?) mind's 'evolution'.
How so? Just because you can understand the question 'What is the source of universe?' it doesn't follow that you will be able to formulate an answer or even understand it if it were given.
'Answers' arise synchronously with 'questions'. Where there is one, there is the other. There are no one-sided coins.
Second, if you do understand the question clearly, yes, you will be able to understand the 'answer' just as clearly. Same coin. Same level of understanding.
It is only speculation that one might not be able to understand the "source of the Universe". Once understood, there is no longer a 'might' about it. Until understood, its speculation and thus cannot be so definitively stated as you have just. *__-
Religions have been speculating about the origins of the universe for millenia and the best they have come up with is some angry guy with a white beard sitting on a cloud.
Well, i don't exactly agree with your conclusion, but yes! it is speculation if not directly perceived.
What I am suggesting is something like the mysterian approach to consciousness advocated by Colin McGinn.
Sorry, I'm completely ignorant of this.
If you think it relevent and want to discuss it, perhaps you can link me.

Yes, Consciousness is not a 'thing' to understand. It does not exist. What we perceive into existence (the Universe), has that existence 'within' Consciousness (the "Ground of all Being!" - Copenhagen interpretation of QM) We can understand everything else. So understanding this, we can understand the source of the Universe as Consciousness. Consciousness, as i said, is not a 'thing' to understand. So, the buck stops here. See? That wasnt too difficult? And you don't even have to know math! *__-

Even refering to Consciousness as a 'source' seems faulty; a 'source' implies a 'comming from somewhere' (the 'source') and a 'comming/going to somewhere'. The Universe does no such thing.

User avatar
Aetixintro
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:44 pm
Contact:

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by Aetixintro » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:32 pm

Rortabend wrote:Try to remember that you are an intelligent ape.
I believe in evolution too, of course, but I resent the comparison to apes because they diverted on a different thread a long time ago. Apes do not have two arms and legs distinctly from another, they use their arms (dual use as arms and legs) also as legs! This isn't the case in humans and for all other reasons, I write The Human Kind! :)

nameless
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Here! Now!

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by nameless » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:40 pm

^^^
Not only that, but comparing humans to apes is an insult to apes worldwide!

User avatar
ray
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:45 pm

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by ray » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:44 pm

Aetixintro wrote:
ray: "We have no other candidate."

This isn't entirely true, I believe.

So, I'm with ray, I stick with the explanation of God until something better comes up.
:D

User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 12306
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by Arising_uk » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:50 am

nameless wrote:^^^
Not only that, but comparing humans to apes is an insult to apes worldwide!
Of course its not.

nameless
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Here! Now!

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by nameless » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:30 am

Arising_uk wrote:
nameless wrote:^^^
Not only that, but comparing humans to apes is an insult to apes worldwide!
Of course its not.
You're right, apes don't have your highly developed ability to understand irony and sarcasm.

And even if my statement were not tongue-in-cheek and meant to be taken literally, the point is philosophically supportable, and, further, your reply would exemplify;
The First Law of Soul Dynamics; "For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!" - Book of Fudd (4:20)

doraB
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:51 pm

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by doraB » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:53 pm

socratus wrote: 1.
Fact.
The detected material mass of the matter in the Universe is so small
(the average density of all substance in the Universe is approximately
p=10^-30 g/ hsa ^3) that it cannot ‘close’ the Universe into sphere and
therefore our Universe as whole is ‘open’, endless Vacuum.
But what to do with the infinite Universe the physicists don't know.
The concept of infinite/ eternal means nothing
to a scientists. They do not understand how they could
draw any real, concrete conclusions from this characteristic.
A notions of ‘more, less, equally, similar ’ could not
be conformed to a word infinity or eternity.
The Infinity / Eternity is something, that has no borders,
has no discontinuity; it could not be compared to anything.
Considering so, scientists came to conclusion that the
infinity/eternity defies to a physical and mathematical definition
and cannot be considered in real processes.
Therefore they have proclaimed the strict requirement
(on a level of censor of the law):
« If we want that the theory would be correct,
the infinity/eternity should be eliminated » .
Thus they direct all their mathematical abilities,
all intellectual energy to the elimination of infinity.
Therefore they invented an abstract ‘dark matter and dark energy’.
They say: ‘ 90% or more of the matter in the Universe is unseen.’
And nobody knows what it is.
A lot of religiously-driven-automatons would argue with the facts of the above statements, while Stephen Hawking's wormhole theory was broke back in 2006. I'm not sure you can hook such heavy questions on these presumptions, IMHO.

Impenitent
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: What is the Source of the Universe ?

Post by Impenitent » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:10 am

your mind

-Imp

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests