_____________To recap then;
It was YHWHs action alone which ensured that death would happen, because the source of sustained life is represented as access to the tree of life, [which Adam and Eve had once had access to], had been sealed off by YWHW because of their disregarding YHWHs advice re the forbidden fruit.
The OPQ has to be answered in the affirmative because - had the couple obeyed YHWH [the forbidden fruit was actually harmless - being a prop anyway] so it would be acceptable/reasonable for YHWH to then permit the eating of said fruit.
In this case, Christianity in general - despite its claims - and the Jehovah's Witness branch specifically [represented by JW] - are obviously not the best devices to use when trying to understand the agenda of YHWH in relation to the purpose of the human form.
As JW commented...
...in reply to my critique, leaving out all reasons as to why JW 'disagrees'.I disagree.
Since this is a debate setting, to simply leave it at that, it can be regarded that JW has conceded to my critique.
[Too soon?]
220922 [Let the facts speak for themselves] 338
SCLx14 + select last LE per shuffle
[Preamble]
The Source of All Creation - Unknown Symbol - The Master ColdFire Trick - People seem to love to put order to chaos because that is only natural, as nature is not chaos. - Useful - Small Elemental Powers - Embarrassment - Smarter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ELMicJmQ [An answer for any question | I Ching secrets] - Fireside Friend - We succeed as a permanent specie or we fail as a temporary one - - Born again - Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
From the video link;
AP= [Long Story Short Hell = 262]Jung saw the rich symbolism in the 64 hexagrams of the I Ching, not just as a way to access our own intuition, but as a doorway that could unlock the power of the unconscious mind. And what he called the collective unconscious.
[262]
[Unexplained Light Source
Systems of disparity
Express your feelings
Creation of a New Universe
If memory serves me well
The Signatory System
Achievable Alternate Realities
Long Story Short Hell
Human history and warfare
Shuussssh You Do It]
RSP = SCLx14 Page 338
07:21 [Closer to The Source]
Page 338
GM: We All Like To Play Games
Musing On The Mother
Science Can Be Fun Too
William: It is our nature.
Musing On The Mother Science Can Be Fun Too = 398
Perhaps this is the 'Elephant in the room" = 398
GM: Couple
"I know how you care while you nurture your fear That you'll miss the bouquet when its thrown"
The Mapping Bots
William: The Mapping Bots Couple "I know how you care while you nurture your fear That you'll miss the bouquet when its thrown" = 1311
[One Three One One = 158]
[158]
Propitious [giving or indicating a good chance of success; favourable.]
Learning to Fly
The solution
Maree’s dying/death
Try To Relax
Spirit work
Stuff like that...
Misanthropy
Sacred Geometry
Navigational Aids
Astrobiology [the branch of biology concerned with the study of life on earth and in space.]
Phantasmagorical [an exhibition of optical effects and illusions. ]
Deep Impact Event
Clear Your Mind
William: I think that Mapping Bots are Algorithms...so coupled with the poetry...?
GM: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... tcount=927
Confirmation bias
William: FTL;
[One Five Nine Two = 176]As I said, it is not so much how each individual interprets any particular GM - either coming from me or you or anyone else - Rather it is the fact that a message is generated.
[176]
Relaxed and informal...
The Cave of Origins
What Is Found Here
You are neutral
The World Wide Web
Hiding behind ones fear
The Deeper Reality
Okay - facts are great.
What the seed holds
The Vast UICDevice
I am on a Madventure
William: re "Confirmation bias" it is a Jung pointed out;
GM: ClarityJung anticipated that skeptics would criticize the I Ching. For example, a skeptic might say that anyone who looks for answers in the I Ching is just projecting their own psychological thoughts and impressions into the symbolism of the hexagrams.But Jung argued that even if this is true “it does no harm to the function of the I Ching. On the contrary.” Don’t you see how useful that is, in making you project your unrealized thoughts onto its pages?”
If these separate theories are really true, then they should ultimately come together into some master theory.
Here Everything All Real Together
Intelligent Consciousness
Abiogenesis
Eigengrau [dark light, or brain gray, is the uniform dark gray background that many people report seeing in the absence of light.]
Data
Joining
The fire from within
Hyper Complex
William: Hyper Complex Data Joining The fire from within = 470
[470]
Contradiction feeds the fires of discontentment.
Hyper Complex Data Joining The fire from within
Present over perfect The Number One Nine Two
The Number One Nine Two = 240
[240]
Language, Symbol and Alchemy
Planet Earth is a prison
…And Loving That Knowing…
Out and about in the open
The Hamitic Hypothesis
In good faith, if you will
The Connection Process
The number one nine two
Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams
[192]
Moderator Comment
Smoke and Mirrors
Atheists crack me up.
Responsibility
Quantum Presence
Tempting Vision
The Way of the Shaman
Merging with the data
Childhood Nightmares
Integral Network
GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 9#p1089189
William: FTL; Re: The problem of evil
GM: Plus[Replying to Miles in post #10]
Or is there an overlooked option?
Attributing evil acts of human beings as ordered up by "God", may well muddy the waters.GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 0#p1083860
William: From the link;GM: "One can commune with the gods as long as the overall subject is GodWilliam: re your second question as to why religious mythology is an exception to the rule, the answer probably also comes from a position of bias as those who invent and agree to such rules might be heavily influenced by the mythological imagery to the extent where they lack understanding that the mythological imagery is simply a well intended interpretation of experiences had, which are not easily explainable to others, using whatever communication techniques available at the time of explanation.
For example, if a space-faring advanced specie were to display to an individual human mind from the stone-age period, a fully immersive holographic experience of compacted imagery showing how the universe began, and subsequently unfolded, the individual experiencing this would not be able to distinguish the holographic display from the normal reality he/she usually experiences. One would appear as real to the individual, as the other.
Further to that, any interpretation of the experience in the telling of it to his/her stone aged fellows, can only be attempted through use of analogy and those peoples understanding of form and function as it pertains to them - from their perspective in the dominant reality experience in said universe.
Without getting caught up in the sticky web of Christian-denominational-dynamics"
Mistranslating traumatic ancestral memories
{SOURCE}
The fact is that evil and suffering exist as temporary experiences which appear to be manifested only through the actions of humans.
Should the act of a lion eating a man, be considered an evil act?
[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #9]
When observing nature we see clearly that all biological life-forms are behaving in ways which are reminiscent of those evils you mentioned;
Rape, slavery, genocides...why are such things regarded as 'evil' simply because humans do them?
If nature is a creation of a GOD-creator mind, why should we have to think that said mind would therefore be evil?
Human Being
Improve
William: Improve Human Being = 192 Hmmm...another one to add to the number One Nine Two...
GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 2#p1070402
William: FTL; Re: Something can't come from nothing
GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 6#p1085406What is noticeable about theism - even where it has branched into religionism - is that this is a type of means of leaving a trail in ones wake, and the trail itself shows efforts of The Mind to engage with human minds for the purpose of connecting - but often religious leaders have used this as a means of securing station/position within hierarchal structures which require said leaders to be the middle-person between The Mind and the individual - something easily enough achieved since the individual can be unsure of themselves and even afraid of doing that, so they willingly allow for the medium to act as go-between...which more often than not leads to little to no meaningful connection at all.
This also occurs in theistic non-religious structures - mostly because individuals doubt themselves sincere and honest enough to drop the medium and connect in a self-responsible manner.
Even so, I write that as an observation rather than a judgement. The Mind is aware that it is a scary thing for individuate human minds to willingly do, and while ideally if everyone did do it, much good could be accomplished, that most do not do it, does not affect the agenda of said Mind.
William: FTL; Re: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?
GM: A Life Sentence Ending in a Death SentenceDifflugia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:21 pmWhat's the reason? Why are you trying to turn this into a staring contest instead of answering a straightforward question about what you mean?
William's comments were insightful:William wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:37 pmWilliam: A "religious belief" has to do with the branch of Theism which attempts to Dress The Ghost - [dressing The Ghost through the use of imagery is an attempt to make The Ghost be seen.] which is what religion does with the idea of GOD...this itself stems from the idea that we exist within a creation, something which still hasn't been established.
Thus Theism - and the religious branch in particular, place the cart before the horse.You insultingly dismissed them without explanation:You then went on to dismiss JoeyKnothead's observation that the Authorized Version refers to the Holy Ghost.
You haven't explained what the difference is in reference either to William's comment or the Authorized Version, only derisively hinted that it's self-explanatory. I suspect that you and William had slightly different meanings in mind for "ghost" such that both of your statements are true from a particular point of view. That happens sometimes, but when it's intentional, it's equivocation. Is it intentional? Is that why you don't want to define your terms? Are you concerned that someone might find a narrower word or phrase that's more accurate, but just as unflattering to theists? If not, why is it so important to you that we guess at what you're talking about?
Coordinate
Strength of Body
To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored...
Heaven on Earth
An expression of personal incredulity
The Realist:
The Moment
Nihilism
Personal growth
Effectively
viewtopic.php?p=578410#p578410
William: FTL; Machines and morality
GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 5#p1076185William: So - re Pareidolia - I was thinking about what had occurred the previous night. To explain to the reader, I was aware of this 'dark side' aspect of my psyche - and had asked for this to be removed, and the answer I received came in the form of the experience I wrote about in my previous post - to do with the 'dialing up and dialing down' of my conscious awareness of mind as both an exhilarating feeling of being capable of containing an awesome amount of experiential information as well as the dilapidating feeling of being encased in flesh to the point where the flesh was the dominant structure to which I felt barely able to function within.
The next morning I intuitively knew that whatever the experience was showing me, it had not, in any way, gotten rid of the 'dark side' aspect of my psyche - which I had specifically asked for...so what was it that the experience was showing me? The answer to that question unfolded in the events of the day ahead of me, starting with the old lady stopping to give me a ride and who just happened to have been travelling with a little bird in a cage, in the back seat of her car.
The second part of the story unfolded when the lady dropped me off and I hitched another ride with a young guy who was going to the city I was heading for.
On the way, in between chatting about things, the guy put on a CD and I continued wondering what my experience was meant to show me.
My thoughts were that perhaps what I thought of as my 'dark side' was as necessary to my self as that of my 'light side' and that the experience I had in answer to my request, was to show me this.
As I was thinking these thoughts, the CD started playing a song and the chorus had the words 'brother wolf and sister moon' and appeared to be coinciding with my thoughts - perhaps a type of pareidolia in itself...
William: FTL; Re: The capability to sin
GM: "Nontheist: A means of taking an Agnostic position on things which have yet to be proven one way or another...Such is a handy device for side-stepping - nothing more."[Replying to Miles in post #65]
Why couldn't we do good even if we lack free will?The question you asked is still based in morality.If we lacked will, we would not be a part of the life that exerts its will into the environment.
Since we are part of that life, our will is defined through the experience, just as our morals are.
How can we 'do good' if we don't know what 'doing good' means?No. What I think is that there is no such thing as either 'good' or 'evil' except in what beliefs dictate to the contrary.So you believe that we need evil in the world before we can have good?
Beliefs are simply the misrepresentation of reality.
I neither know that, nor believe it. I simply view it as a story which may have its origins as completely benign, and only became problematic as the Children hearing the story, believed the story to be true.You do know, don't you, that in the beginning god had no intention of evil or any of its affiliated concepts being any part of human existence.
The Creator had no intentions which were based upon ideas of 'good' or 'evil'. That is simply a story.
Wherein is this "sin, evil, wrong, badness" to be identified within the reality? Why have you placed "suffering" under that category?That he intended A&E to live without sin, evil, wrong, badness, suffering, etc. etc.. That all would live in "absolute goodness" whether we recognized it or not.
The stories that Children believe to be true are simply ignorant attempts by the Parents to 'explain' the Childs predicament within the reality experience.
And 'how else' can we explain suffering without adding into the equation that we 'must have done something to deserve it' - thus myths are borne on the winds of the stories themselves.
It is the suffering which bears witness to this, and is seen to be - not just the result of 'evil' but 'evil' itself...which is why some can so easily proclaim that 'animals can be evil'...another way of saying that nature Herself is 'evil'.
Ironically, the knowledge of good and evil both helped and hindered.
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 2#p1076182
William: In one way this would be correct - in that the 'side-stepping' involves identifying baiting techniques which attempt to distract/derail/hijacking threads.
GM: identifying baiting techniques which attempt to distract/derail/hijacking threads. = 776
'If only' it wasn't in the too hard basket....which fortunately it actually isn't. = 776
GM: In The Night Sky
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 4#p1074124
William: FTL; Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain
GM: Righty Oh!William wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:28 pm
There is no such thing as accidental. But a theist cannot explain to a non-theist why that is the case, and ever expect to be understood.
So from what I can tell, I'm correct. You use a random process to generate "messages" that are just strings of random words, with no intentional, actual message in them. Occasionally, due to random chance, the strings of random words form coherent "messages" (in the same way that random number generators will sometimes produce patterns).
It seems to me that the non-theists are therefore correct. The Generated Messages are indeed gibberish with no intentional, actual messages in them.
Thus IMO the takeaway is that non-theists accurately assess the situation, whereas theists tend to see things (i.e., meaning) that aren't actually there. That's pretty consistent with something I noticed growing up in a religious environment....a propensity to see "signs" in common, everyday events. I remember my mom praising God for finding a good parking spot, when my view was that the parking spot would have opened up whether she was needing one or not, and the gods did not alter the course of the universe just to give it to her.
It also puts me in mind of something I read quite a while ago (I can't remember exactly what it was though....sorry) that showed liberals/atheists valued objectivity and accuracy more than conservatives/theists (who value loyalty, tradition, and sanctity more).
It's certainly interesting.
You Love I Know
Regulate
"I Really Think Its Ganna Take That Long"
Be mindful
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
Illuminate
Listening
William: Illuminate Listening = 225
[225]
Slowly and Surely
All is fair in love and war
Suppressing Border
Illuminate Listening
How to Bruise a Ghost
Holographic Universe
Counterintuitive
Love - Communicate Love
Tell Your Story
The House of Politics
“Mother Earth Harmony”
Create Your Own UFO
Possibility waves
08:04
[Quantum Entanglement
The Visitation Event
Superior Credibility
Where is the devil today?
There is good out there
Blue yellow black green red
Spiritual bypassing
Wakey Wakey The Great I Am]
Anchor Points:
To Follow...