Impossibility of time travel

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Walker
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Walker »

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:31 pm ...
It is a fascinating seed thought … amongst many in the fertile latitudes of the temperate zone.

The philosophy of seeking lies in a speculative thread about time travel is like the philosophy of hunting for elephants at the zoo, in the sense that ideas can get exterminated rather than trophied.

The real question is, how pedestrian must a Karen be to look for lies in a speculative thread about the possibility of time travel, within a dimension that considers time travel to be an impossibility? In such a world, any opening to the unknown automatically becomes a lie.

Moving about as a Walker naturally stirs interest in the how and why of the pedestrian, in order to avoid plodding.
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:57 pm
Age wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:03 am
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:45 pm
Well that's a lie!

I'm not an atheist and know little about what they do, but I do know there are hundreds of religious apologists who do nothing but try to prove their religions are right. For example, these, "The Top 20 Christian Apologists." All religions have their apologists.

The one thing they have in common is their penchant for declaring things, like you, which are simply not true.
Instead of just saying things like; "things, which simply are not true", you PROVIDE some of these 'things' so that we can LOOK AT and SEE if what you are CLAIMING is actually True, or False?
Why?
Because if I was to say, "What you are saying is simply not true", then would I be right or wrong?
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:57 pm Any reasonably intelligent individual will understand exactly what I mean.
LOL the "IGNORANCE" is BLINDING here.

One does NOT have to be even somewhat, so-called, "intelligent" to 'understand' EXACTLY what you mean. But absolutely NO one "else", but you, KNOWS what you are referring to EXACTLY.

If you do NOT provide ANY examples of what you CLAIM are "simply not true", then what you are referring to, EXACTLY, NO one KNOWS. And ANY 'intelligent' person KNOWS this to be Factually True.

ONCE AGAIN, what you MEAN is OBVIOUS. But what you are REFERRING TO NO one KNOWS.

Are you 'intelligent' enough to SEE this NOW?

I don't care if you don't understand it.
[/quote]
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RCSaunders
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by RCSaunders »

Age wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:05 am
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:57 pm
Age wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:03 am

Instead of just saying things like; "things, which simply are not true", you PROVIDE some of these 'things' so that we can LOOK AT and SEE if what you are CLAIMING is actually True, or False?
Why?
There is place in the order of reason beyond which it is pointless to go when dealing with those of limited intellect. It's like answering the child's question, "why?" To every answer the child will ask, "but why," until the point is reached where it is impossible to answer the child, because the child has just not learned enough yet to understand the answer. That's the point I've reached with you.
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:29 am
Age wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:05 am
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:57 pm
Why?
There is place in the order of reason beyond which it is pointless to go when dealing with those of limited intellect.
And one NOT being ABLE to just CLARIFY is a SIGN one is VERY SHORT of Honesty, AND intelligence.
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:29 am It's like answering the child's question, "why?" To every answer the child will ask, "but why," until the point is reached where it is impossible to answer the child, because the child has just not learned enough yet to understand the answer. That's the point I've reached with you.
LOL
LOL
LOL

The REASON WHY children continually ask WHY? is BECAUSE they are Truly INTELLIGENT beings. And, the REASON WHY adults FALTER in answering Honestly and FULLY is because 'you', adult human beings, do NOT know THE ANSWER.

For example, children CONTINUALLY ask, 'But if God created EVERY thing, then WHO created God?' and the reason 'you', adult human beings, FALTER is BECAUSE 'you' do NOT KNOW, YET.

Also, the HARM and DAMAGE 'you', adult human beings, are ACTUALLY doing to children, in the days when this was being written, by NOT answering Honestly and FULLY their Truly CURIOUS questions was NOT YET FULLY understood by 'you'.

By the way, your Truly CONDESCENDING and IGNORANT attitude and intention behind your words here are being CLEARLY SEEN and NOTICED by 'us'.

Also, are you even AWARE that it was YOU who asked the 'Why?' question here?

And, it is YOU who is NOT able to just UNDERSTAND my reply?

Furthermore, your ATTEMPT at 'trying to' DETRACT from what I have ALREADY POINTED OUT and SHOWN in regards to just how IDIOTIC and RIDICULOUS your CLAIMS ACTUALLY ARE here, is just NOT working.
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bahman
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by bahman »

Jori wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.
Time is a substance so it does not vanquish. I was told that you can have access to your past life through meditation. That is a feasible scenario to me all our experiences reside inside our minds. The future is a little tricky. But have you ever had a Dejavu?
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RCSaunders
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by RCSaunders »

bahman wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 pm Time is a substance ...
What is it made out of? What color is it? How much does it weigh? What shape is it? Name one property time has that can be observed or detected by any physical means.

Time is no more a substance then length, volume, or weight are substances. Time is a metric, a way of measuring the relationship between different motions and nothing more.
seeds
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by seeds »

bahman wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 pm Time is a substance so it does not vanquish. I was told that you can have access to your past life through meditation. That is a feasible scenario to me all our experiences reside inside our minds. The future is a little tricky. But have you ever had a Dejavu?
Again, bahman (as mentioned in an alternate thread), Deja vu is simply an eerie sensation that comes when whatever event or circumstance you may be experiencing at any given moment...

(even though it is obviously fresh and new)

...is something that you seem to have a vivid memory of having already experienced sometime in the past.

Now I'm not suggesting that I can't be wrong, but, just out of curiosity, what aspect of my speculative (quantum-based) explanation of Deja vu (here: viewtopic.php?p=496110#p496110) made no sense to you?
_______
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 pm Time is a substance ...
What is it made out of? What color is it? How much does it weigh? What shape is it? Name one property time has that can be observed or detected by any physical means.

Time is no more a substance then length, volume, or weight are substances. Time is a metric, a way of measuring the relationship between different motions and nothing more.
VERY True.

And, the quicker 'you', other human beings, come to see and understand this Fact, then the quicker you can come to see and understand the other Facts in Life.
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bahman
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by bahman »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 pm Time is a substance ...
What is it made out of?
It is made of time. That is a sort of the wrong question. It is like asking what electron is made of.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm What color is it?
It has the color of time. You experience it like other things such as thought.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm How much does it weigh?
I don't think that time has mass.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm What shape is it?
It doesn't have any shape. It exists at now. It can be slowed down around a heavy object.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm Name one property time has that can be observed or detected by any physical means.
I said enough about the properties of time.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm Time is no more a substance then length, volume, or weight are substances. Time is a metric, a way of measuring the relationship between different motions and nothing more.
Wrong. Space is a substance as well. It bends around the heavy objects.
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bahman
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by bahman »

seeds wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:18 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 pm Time is a substance so it does not vanquish. I was told that you can have access to your past life through meditation. That is a feasible scenario to me all our experiences reside inside our minds. The future is a little tricky. But have you ever had a Dejavu?
Again, bahman (as mentioned in an alternate thread), Deja vu is simply an eerie sensation that comes when whatever event or circumstance you may be experiencing at any given moment...

(even though it is obviously fresh and new)

...is something that you seem to have a vivid memory of having already experienced sometime in the past.

Now I'm not suggesting that I can't be wrong, but, just out of curiosity, what aspect of my speculative (quantum-based) explanation of Deja vu (here: viewtopic.php?p=496110#p496110) made no sense to you?
_______
I am sorry that I have never replied to that message. What you are saying is that there is implicit order in which things are non-local and simultaneous and there is explicit order in which things take time and are local. Dejavu to you is then a phenomenon that is registered in our memory through implicit order and then observed through explicit order. That seems interesting. The only thing which I don't understand is that the non-local quantum world looks quite different from what we experience in daily life so I don't understand how could we possibly have a registered memory of something which is similar to what we experience normally.
seeds
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:18 pm Now I'm not suggesting that I can't be wrong, but, just out of curiosity, what aspect of my speculative (quantum-based) explanation of Deja vu (here: viewtopic.php?p=496110#p496110) made no sense to you?
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:42 pm What you are saying is that there is implicit order in which things are non-local and simultaneous and there is explicit order in which things take time and are local. Dejavu to you is then a phenomenon that is registered in our memory through implicit order and then observed through explicit order. That seems interesting.
So far, that's a pretty good assessment.
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:42 pm The only thing which I don't understand is that the non-local quantum world looks quite different from what we experience in daily life so I don't understand how could we possibly have a registered memory of something which is similar to what we experience normally.
All of the phenomenal features of reality, be they objective...

(as in what we experience outwardly in the universe)

...or subjective,...

(as in what we experience inwardly in the form of our thoughts, dreams, and memories)

...are founded upon interpenetrating (superpositioned) "fields of information" that bear no resemblance to the phenomena they represent. Yet, our consciousness is somehow able to decode and transform that information into something that we call "reality" (as in positionally-fixed, 3-D phenomena suspended in a spatial arena).

The point is that you don't need to register a memory of something via the normal means. No, all you need is direct access to the information that underpins the phenomenal features of the universe, of which I am loosely postulating occurs in the case of Deja vu.

I'm not sure I can explain it any better than I did in the thought experiment in the other thread where I used physicist David Bohm's concept of the "Implicate Order" and the "Explicate Order" to make my point.

Anyway, the whole reason for me bringing it up in the first place was to deter you from seeming to imply that Deja vu might somehow represent a means for peering into the future.
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by RCSaunders »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:02 pm Time is a substance ...
What is it made out of?
It is made of time. That is a sort of the wrong question. It is like asking what electron is made of.
An electron has mass, charge, size, and other physical characteristics. What physical characteristics does time have? None, because it is not a thing, not an entity, not a substance or any kind of, "stuff." It is an attribute of the phenomenon motion and sans motion does not exist at all.
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm What color is it?
It has the color of time.
Ah, yes. No color at all.
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm How much does it weigh?
I don't think that time has mass.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm What shape is it?
It doesn't have any shape. It exists at now. It can be slowed down around a heavy object.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm Name one property time has that can be observed or detected by any physical means.
I said enough about the properties of time.
Exactly nothing, because time has no attributes of a substance.
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm Time is no more a substance then length, volume, or weight are substances. Time is a metric, a way of measuring the relationship between different motions and nothing more.
Wrong. Space is a substance as well. It bends around the heavy objects.
The so-called geometry of space is a metaphorical description of the bahavior of physical entities, not a description of some kind of, "stuff." Einstein himself rejected that view.

I have no idea why it bothers you that time and space are not entities or substances but merely ways of describing the relationships between things that really are entities and substances unless you are trying to promote some supernatural view of reality.
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Jeremy »

RCSaunders wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:18 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm
What is it made out of?
It is made of time. That is a sort of the wrong question. It is like asking what electron is made of.
An electron has mass, charge, size, and other physical characteristics. What physical characteristics does time have? None, because it is not a thing, not an entity, not a substance or any kind of, "stuff." It is an attribute of the phenomenon motion and sans motion does not exist at all.
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm What color is it?
It has the color of time.
Ah, yes. No color at all.
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm How much does it weigh?
I don't think that time has mass.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm What shape is it?
It doesn't have any shape. It exists at now. It can be slowed down around a heavy object.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm Name one property time has that can be observed or detected by any physical means.
I said enough about the properties of time.
Exactly nothing, because time has no attributes of a substance.
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm Time is no more a substance then length, volume, or weight are substances. Time is a metric, a way of measuring the relationship between different motions and nothing more.
Wrong. Space is a substance as well. It bends around the heavy objects.
The so-called geometry of space is a metaphorical description of the bahavior of physical entities, not a description of some kind of, "stuff." Einstein himself rejected that view.

I have no idea why it bothers you that time and space are not entities or substances but merely ways of describing the relationships between things that really are entities and substances unless you are trying to promote some supernatural view of reality.
We might infer from properties we measure that there's an entity we call 'electron', but we have no way to substantiate it. The problem with time in this regard would be spooky action, but a distance between assumes identity, albeit point-like, which is but one way in which electrons are imagined. I suggest there is no substance underlying what can be detected, so the more closely we look, the more ambiguous things become, and at minute scales there is randomness rather than continuity of cause.

Time is predicated on cause, and although cause is evident to our larger scale picture, closer investigation of that sensed reveals manifestations without endurance uncaused by those preceding, and every aspect of our experience remains momentarily isolated because there is no entity that travels through time.
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by RCSaunders »

Jeremy wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:09 am Time is predicated on cause, and although cause ...
Well, you are, as far as I know, the only person who thinks so. What could that possibly mean? Are you saying something, "causes," time? Does something, "cause," length, or volume, or velocity? It's absurd.
Jeremy wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:09 am ... there is no entity that travels through time.
That is, at least true, because time is not some kind of stuff or fluid that things travel through. Time is nothing more than the relationship between two or more motions, using one motion as a standard metric (such as the motion of the moon) and comparing other motions to it (how far does the earth move while the moon makes one revolution around the earth. If there were no motion, there would be no time, because there would be nothing to measure or compare.

There is only time for the same reason there is, "space." Everything cannot be in the same place and the fact things are separated (have different positions) is called space. Because everything cannot happen simultaneously (which would be the same as not happening at all) the separation of events is called time.
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bahman
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by bahman »

seeds wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:53 pm
seeds wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:18 pm Now I'm not suggesting that I can't be wrong, but, just out of curiosity, what aspect of my speculative (quantum-based) explanation of Deja vu (here: viewtopic.php?p=496110#p496110) made no sense to you?
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:42 pm What you are saying is that there is implicit order in which things are non-local and simultaneous and there is explicit order in which things take time and are local. Dejavu to you is then a phenomenon that is registered in our memory through implicit order and then observed through explicit order. That seems interesting.
So far, that's a pretty good assessment.
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:42 pm The only thing which I don't understand is that the non-local quantum world looks quite different from what we experience in daily life so I don't understand how could we possibly have a registered memory of something which is similar to what we experience normally.
All of the phenomenal features of reality, be they objective...

(as in what we experience outwardly in the universe)

...or subjective,...

(as in what we experience inwardly in the form of our thoughts, dreams, and memories)

...are founded upon interpenetrating (superpositioned) "fields of information" that bear no resemblance to the phenomena they represent. Yet, our consciousness is somehow able to decode and transform that information into something that we call "reality" (as in positionally-fixed, 3-D phenomena suspended in a spatial arena).

The point is that you don't need to register a memory of something via the normal means. No, all you need is direct access to the information that underpins the phenomenal features of the universe, of which I am loosely postulating occurs in the case of Deja vu.

I'm not sure I can explain it any better than I did in the thought experiment in the other thread where I used physicist David Bohm's concept of the "Implicate Order" and the "Explicate Order" to make my point.

Anyway, the whole reason for me bringing it up in the first place was to deter you from seeming to imply that Deja vu might somehow represent a means for peering into the future.
_______
Let's see if we can agree on these two facts, there is an objective world that exists on its own and it is not similar to what we experience subjectively. What more? In order to explain Dejavu by means of implicit order and explicit order, one needs to have a register memory by implicit order in order to experience Dejavu once the topic is experienced by means of explicit order. Otherwise how the feeling of I have seen this before could possibly come from?
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