Impossibility of time travel

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Dubious
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Dubious »

bahman wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:12 am
Dubious wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:10 am Because there's nothing in it that can create consciousness; there is no process, organic or not, which allows it from being or becoming conscious.
How do you know that that is the process that causes consciousness? Is the internet conscious?
The ones who are using it are consciousness - though one wonders to what level - but is its infrastructure conscious?

NOPE!
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bahman
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by bahman »

Dubious wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:16 am
bahman wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:12 am
Dubious wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:10 am Because there's nothing in it that can create consciousness; there is no process, organic or not, which allows it from being or becoming conscious.
How do you know that that is the process that causes consciousness? Is the internet conscious?
The ones who are using it are consciousness - though one wonders to what level - but is its infrastructure conscious?

NOPE!
The brain is noting more than interacting neurons. The internet is nothing than interacting agents. How does the interaction in the first case lead to consciousness and in the second case not?
Dubious
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Dubious »

bahman wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:20 am
Dubious wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:16 am
bahman wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:12 am
How do you know that that is the process that causes consciousness? Is the internet conscious?
The ones who are using it are consciousness - though one wonders to what level - but is its infrastructure conscious?

NOPE!
The brain is noting more than interacting neurons. The internet is nothing than interacting agents. How does the interaction in the first case lead to consciousness and in the second case not?
Oh! is that ALL it is, just interacting neurons (whatever that means).

It's over & out time!
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:44 pm
Age wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:34 am
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:25 pm
Time passes with a specific rate that can be experienced. This passage slows down near heavy objects. Gravitational waves have been observed!
'Time' passes 'what', EXACTLY?
What?
Consider the 'words' that you actually used; "Time passes". Now 'think' about what 'time', itself, actually 'passes', then explain what that 'thing' is, EXACTLY, which 'time', supposedly, 'passes'.

SEE, in the days when this was being written, 'you', adult human beings, would say a LOT of 'words' but would NEVER actually STOP and 'consider' and 'think' about what those 'words' actually meant or were actually referring to, EXACTLY.

As you have just PROVED True here, ONCE AGAIN.
bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:44 pm
Age wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:34 am What is the 'specific rate', EXACTLY?
The rate that you experience which is subject to change if you are close to a heavy object.
MORE PROOF that these ones, back in those OLDEN DAYS, NEVER did actually STOP to 'consider' and 'think' about what 'it' is EXACTLY, which they were TALKING ABOUT and SAYING.
bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:44 pm
Age wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:34 am And, what is the 'specific rate' relative to, EXACTLY?
The rate that you experience it.
Well the so-called 'rate of change' NEVER actually changes, to me.

From what I experience the WHOLE Universe is just changing CONSTANTLY, and with NO 'rate change' AT ALL.
bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:44 pm
Age wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:34 am The so-called "passage of time" CAN NOT and DOES NOT slow down, nor speed up. But while one BELIEVES otherwise, then they are NOT able to LEARN and UNDERSTAND this Fact.
It does.
If you say and BELIEVE SO.

PLEASE feel absolutely FREE to carry on with those BELIEFS you have. For SURELY there is absolutely NOTHING False, Wrong, NOR Incorrect with ANY of YOUR BELIEFS. Otherwise, WHY would 'you' BELIEVE those 'things' to be absolutely True, Right, AND Correct?
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:49 pm
Age wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:41 am
bahman wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:51 pm
No there is no problem. The future always is determined in the block universe whereas in our universe is determined until a decision is required.
What is the 'block universe', from your perspective?

What is 'our universe', from your perspective?

And, what is the EXACT 'distinction'?
The block universe is a universe that future and past exit. The future is determined in this universe. The future is determined in our universe until the point of decision. Whether the future exists or not in such a universe is the subject of another discussion.
WHEN, and IF, you get around to STOP using ABSURD phrases like; "our universe", and/or 'considering' and 'thinking' about what they ACTUALLY MEAN or REFER TO, then you can, at least, BEGIN to START learning, seeing, and understanding what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

But until then PLEASE FEEL FREE to BELIEVE what you currently do here.

By the way, how could the 'future' NOT exist in ANY 'universe'?
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:05 pm
seeds wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:32 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:51 pm
No there is no problem. The future always is determined in the block universe whereas in our universe is determined until a decision is required.
First of all, you already stated that you don't believe in the "Block Universe" hypothesis. In which case, you have no business using it in your argument.
No. My argument is valid since the future is fixed until a decision is made.
Your so-called "arguments" are INVALID and UNSOUND.

The 'future' can NOT be so-called "fixed" as well "unfixed".

But what you are 'leading towards' and 'getting to', EVER SO SLOWLY, is absolutely IRREFUTABLY True, Right, AND Correct.

That is; BOTH 'determinism' AND 'free will' EXIST. And, it is BECAUSE BOTH EXIST that the 'world' that we ALL once wanted to live in and deep-down Truly desire IS becoming the 'future world'.

SEE, the 'visible world' is ALL 'determined', by pre-existing conditions, and thus at EVERY moment was 'pre-determined'. The 'invisible world', or better known as the 'life we create for "ourselves" ', is created, or 'determined', by the choices we make.

The choices we make can only be based on pre-existing 'thoughts', which were 'pre-determined, by pre-existing conditions. BUT, we still have the ABILITY TO CHOOSE, which, when what 'free will' refers to, provides thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.

bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:05 pm
seeds wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:40 pm Secondly, if by chance you are imagining "our" universe as being deterministic based on Newtonian laws,...
Even the Schrodinger equation is a deterministic equation.
seeds wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:40 pm ...then your very assertion that determinism is only in play until a decision is made, renders your concept of determinism null and void by reason of the fact that billions of "decisions" are being made each and every passing second by billions of minds on this planet.

The point being, that if vast numbers of "decisions" are constantly being made in a never-ending stream, then when (and in what way) does the universe ever have a chance to display itself as being deterministic?
Yes, there are lots of decisions that are made in each second but not all the decisions have an impact on your future.
How could ALL decisions NOT have an impact on the future?

Will provide an example of a 'decision' that supposedly will NOT have an impact on the future?

If no, then WHY NOT?
bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:05 pm
seeds wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:40 pm And, lastly, my whole reason for engaging you in this debate in the first place was to counter your implying that Deja vu might have something to do with accessing the future in some significant way,...

Image

...to which I suggest that you should heed the advice of the guy who - in a moment of rational lucidity - stated the following...
bahman wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:15 pm "...perhaps there is another explanation for Dejavu...."
_______
Well, my argument is valid unless it is shown that it is wrong or another better argument is given!
When a decision is made this 'fixes' the future, from then on. So, "your argument" is INVALID.
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

Dubious wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:46 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:23 pm
Dubious wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:14 pm

It explains where deja vu originates and that it has nothing to do with philosophy, instead being thoroughly centered in the physical brain. The details of that are hardly of interest in a philosophy forum.
I am very interested to know. Physicalism has a hard time explaining consciousness. Let's leave alone, Dejavu, dreams, spiritual experience, etc.
True, consciousness is very hard to explain, at least so far.
But 'consciousness', itself, is NOT AT ALL hard to explain.

Some human beings, back in the days when this was being written, just could NOT YET fully understand the SIMPLE explanation.
Dubious wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:46 pm But one thing's for certain you need a physical brain to be conscious. We never encountered a consciousness that escaped the physical in whatever form it presented itself.
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

What is called "time travel" is POSSIBLE.

One just has to travel faster than the speed of light. And, contrary to popular belief, in the days when this was being written, traveling faster than the speed of light is POSSIBLE.
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bahman
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:05 am
bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:49 pm
Age wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:41 am

What is the 'block universe', from your perspective?

What is 'our universe', from your perspective?

And, what is the EXACT 'distinction'?
The block universe is a universe that future and past exit. The future is determined in this universe. The future is determined in our universe until the point of decision. Whether the future exists or not in such a universe is the subject of another discussion.
WHEN, and IF, you get around to STOP using ABSURD phrases like; "our universe", and/or 'considering' and 'thinking' about what they ACTUALLY MEAN or REFER TO, then you can, at least, BEGIN to START learning, seeing, and understanding what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

But until then PLEASE FEEL FREE to BELIEVE what you currently do here.

By the way, how could the 'future' NOT exist in ANY 'universe'?
How could the future exist in any universe?
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:00 pm
Age wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:05 am
bahman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:49 pm
The block universe is a universe that future and past exit. The future is determined in this universe. The future is determined in our universe until the point of decision. Whether the future exists or not in such a universe is the subject of another discussion.
WHEN, and IF, you get around to STOP using ABSURD phrases like; "our universe", and/or 'considering' and 'thinking' about what they ACTUALLY MEAN or REFER TO, then you can, at least, BEGIN to START learning, seeing, and understanding what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

But until then PLEASE FEEL FREE to BELIEVE what you currently do here.

By the way, how could the 'future' NOT exist in ANY 'universe'?
How could the future exist in any universe?
Very easily and very simply.

'you' are 'in the future' 'now', relative to something else, and 'you' and 'now' are existing, correct?
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bahman
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:45 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:00 pm
Age wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:05 am

WHEN, and IF, you get around to STOP using ABSURD phrases like; "our universe", and/or 'considering' and 'thinking' about what they ACTUALLY MEAN or REFER TO, then you can, at least, BEGIN to START learning, seeing, and understanding what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

But until then PLEASE FEEL FREE to BELIEVE what you currently do here.

By the way, how could the 'future' NOT exist in ANY 'universe'?
How could the future exist in any universe?
Very easily and very simply.

'you' are 'in the future' 'now', relative to something else, and 'you' and 'now' are existing, correct?
No. We are 'at the now' now.
Age
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:54 pm
Age wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:45 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:00 pm
How could the future exist in any universe?
Very easily and very simply.

'you' are 'in the future' 'now', relative to something else, and 'you' and 'now' are existing, correct?
No.
So, which 'one', to 'you', is NOT existing? The 'you', or, the 'now'? Or, are they BOTH NOT existing, to you?

And, do NOT reply TELLING us that your, "No", was in reference to SOME 'thing' ELSE. When, what can be CLEARLY SEEN IS, the ACTUAL QUESTION I POSED and ASKED you.
bahman wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:54 pm We are 'at the now' now.
Did you NOT SEE the 'relative' WORD, in what I WROTE above?
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Agent Smith
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Re: Impossibility of time travel

Post by Agent Smith »

Jori wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:32 am Time travel is science fiction. You cannot travel to the past because the past no longer exists. It's gone. Also you cannot travel to the future because it doesn't exist yet. One cannot go somewhere that does not exist.

The grandfather paradox can be solved by the creation of an alternative reality when the grandfather is killed. However another solution is simply that one cannot go back to the past to kill the grandfather in the first place.
First things first, the argument is both simple and elegant. Congratulations.

Have you come across https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del_metric? Kurt Gödel, no less, makes the argument that given certain conditions, we can time travel to the future. Mind you, this isn't to say that you're wrong; however, wouldn't someone of Gödel's caliber have thought about every possible objection, including but not limited to yours?
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