Is scientific knowledge the best?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Jori
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:58 am

Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Jori »

Science can be defines as the an organized and dynamic body of knowledge which is a result of careful investigation, by means of careful observation, measurement, experimentation, examination of records, and surveys. While science is a result of careful investigation, philosophy is based on reasoning, and religion is based on faith. Does this make science the supreme source of knowledge?
User avatar
Cerveny
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:35 pm
Location: Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Cerveny »

I'm afraid "scientists" are only asking comfortable questions. Nowhere have I seen at least an attempt to answer, for example, why the electric charge occurs only in multiples of e or why elementary particles arise only in complementary pairs…
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Cerveny wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:29 pm I'm afraid "scientists" are only asking comfortable questions. Nowhere have I seen at least an attempt to answer, for example, why the electric charge occurs only in multiples of e or why elementary particles arise only in complementary pairs…
"Scientists" of a certain kind, of course. But yes, that's so.

Or how about the question, "How can a mind be produced by a mere physical entity like the brain?" Or the question, "How can life have arisen from non-life?"

You're right: they focus on the questions -- and consider only the answers -- that fit within their Physicalist paradigm. Thomas Nagel took them to task for this sort of dead-end Physicalism in his latest book, "Mind and Cosmos." And they witch-hunted him because of it.
Impenitent
Posts: 4305
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Impenitent »

which begs the question, why don't secondary particles flourish in incongruent pears?

-Imp
Skepdick
Posts: 14347
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Skepdick »

Jori wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:45 am Science can be defines as the an organized and dynamic body of knowledge which is a result of careful investigation, by means of careful observation, measurement, experimentation, examination of records, and surveys. While science is a result of careful investigation, philosophy is based on reasoning, and religion is based on faith. Does this make science the supreme source of knowledge?
The supreme source of knowledge... for what?

Knowledge is inherently instrumental. Appraising it on its own merits is incoherent.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8477
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Sculptor »

Jori wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:45 am Science can be defines as the an organized and dynamic body of knowledge which is a result of careful investigation, by means of careful observation, measurement, experimentation, examination of records, and surveys. While science is a result of careful investigation, philosophy is based on reasoning, and religion is based on faith. Does this make science the supreme source of knowledge?
No. Well all have personal knowledge that gets us through the day. But there is no doubt that if our beliefs could be tested scientifically we would find that we could believe nothing.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8477
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Sculptor »

Cerveny wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:29 pm I'm afraid "scientists" are only asking comfortable questions. Nowhere have I seen at least an attempt to answer, for example, why the electric charge occurs only in multiples of e or why elementary particles arise only in complementary pairs…
When it comes to the fundemental structure of the universe there are no answers to those questions simply bacause there are no reasons.
Why is every body in the universe attracted to every other body in the universe, which leads to the phenomenon of gravity??
WHilst science is the only discipline of knowledge capable of attempting that questions, and it has been asked by science despite your comments that it only addresses "comfortable" questions, scientists are smart enough to know that there are no reasons for that.

Why don't you be brave and try to answer some of those questions here on the Forum? Or are you content in your own comfort to avoid them?

What you will need to understand about science is that it's job is to intricately DESCRIBE the universe. It really has not interest in questions as to WHY.
If you want to know why, ask a priest. You can have a rainbow of all sorts of contradictory answers from different priests, immans and gurus that will be gushing with responses
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8477
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:34 pm Or how about the question, "How can a mind be produced by a mere physical entity like the brain?" Or the question, "How can life have arisen from non-life?"
Science has not avoided that "uncomfortable" question and it pretty much already has the answer.
It's just that you want to maintain your sense of mysticism and have avoided their answers.
User avatar
Cerveny
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:35 pm
Location: Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Cerveny »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:44 am
Cerveny wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:29 pm I'm afraid "scientists" are only asking comfortable questions. Nowhere have I seen at least an attempt to answer, for example, why the electric charge occurs only in multiples of e or why elementary particles arise only in complementary pairs…
When it comes to the fundemental structure of the universe there are no answers to those questions simply bacause there are no reasons.
Why is every body in the universe attracted to every other body in the universe, which leads to the phenomenon of gravity??
WHilst science is the only discipline of knowledge capable of attempting that questions, and it has been asked by science despite your comments that it only addresses "comfortable" questions, scientists are smart enough to know that there are no reasons for that.

Why don't you be brave and try to answer some of those questions here on the Forum? Or are you content in your own comfort to avoid them?

What you will need to understand about science is that it's job is to intricately DESCRIBE the universe. It really has not interest in questions as to WHY.
If you want to know why, ask a priest. You can have a rainbow of all sorts of contradictory answers from different priests, immans and gurus that will be gushing with responses
As far as the universal attraction of matter is concerned, it is perhaps the least interesting problem in physics for me. Matter deforms (relaxes?) the structure of physical space (aether) around it, which causes their mutual attraction - such as bubbles or fragments on the surface of water or as conductors carrying current in parallel (towards the future:) The question is how things are around antimatter…
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:46 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:34 pm Or how about the question, "How can a mind be produced by a mere physical entity like the brain?" Or the question, "How can life have arisen from non-life?"
Science has not avoided that "uncomfortable" question and it pretty much already has the answer.
Wow. I'm just astounded at how wrongly-informed...or perhaps just uninformed you are. :shock: And you don't seem to mind flaunting it...wow.

Sorry; you're just dead wrong again. Go read any journal on the subject, and you'll find out you're wrong.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8477
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Sculptor »

Cerveny wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:02 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:44 am
Cerveny wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:29 pm I'm afraid "scientists" are only asking comfortable questions. Nowhere have I seen at least an attempt to answer, for example, why the electric charge occurs only in multiples of e or why elementary particles arise only in complementary pairs…
When it comes to the fundemental structure of the universe there are no answers to those questions simply bacause there are no reasons.
Why is every body in the universe attracted to every other body in the universe, which leads to the phenomenon of gravity??
WHilst science is the only discipline of knowledge capable of attempting that questions, and it has been asked by science despite your comments that it only addresses "comfortable" questions, scientists are smart enough to know that there are no reasons for that.

Why don't you be brave and try to answer some of those questions here on the Forum? Or are you content in your own comfort to avoid them?

What you will need to understand about science is that it's job is to intricately DESCRIBE the universe. It really has not interest in questions as to WHY.
If you want to know why, ask a priest. You can have a rainbow of all sorts of contradictory answers from different priests, immans and gurus that will be gushing with responses
As far as the universal attraction of matter is concerned, it is perhaps the least interesting problem in physics for me. Matter deforms (relaxes?) the structure of physical space (aether) around it, which causes their mutual attraction - such as bubbles or fragments on the surface of water or as conductors carrying current in parallel (towards the future:) The question is how things are around antimatter…
what you feel about it is not relevant to what I was saying.
It does not change the fact that there are no explanations, there are just more intricate descriptions.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8477
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:54 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:46 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:34 pm Or how about the question, "How can a mind be produced by a mere physical entity like the brain?" Or the question, "How can life have arisen from non-life?"
Science has not avoided that "uncomfortable" question and it pretty much already has the answer.
Wow. I'm just astounded at how wrongly-informed...or perhaps just uninformed you are. :shock: And you don't seem to mind flaunting it...wow.

Sorry; you're just dead wrong again. Go read any journal on the subject, and you'll find out you're wrong.

I'm not going to take refelctions from a moron who thinks a sky daddy is the answer to everything.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:31 pm I'm not going to take refelctions from a moron who thinks a sky daddy is the answer to everything.
Well, take your "refelctions" from somebody who's educated enough to know how to spell, maybe.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:31 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:54 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:46 am

Science has not avoided that "uncomfortable" question and it pretty much already has the answer.
Wow. I'm just astounded at how wrongly-informed...or perhaps just uninformed you are. :shock: And you don't seem to mind flaunting it...wow.

Sorry; you're just dead wrong again. Go read any journal on the subject, and you'll find out you're wrong.

I'm not going to take refelctions from a moron who thinks a sky daddy is the answer to everything.
I'm sorry I missed this discussion earlier. I have to say, I am in total agreement with every one of your responses on this thread. Perhaps best summed up by, "It does not change the fact that there are no explanations, there are just more intricate descriptions. My own view is that science has no interest, as science, in why anything is what it is or does what it does (as if reality were contingent on something else (sky daddy?)--as the mystics on this thread like IC contend), science only seeks to identify what things actually are and what they actually do, NOT WHY.

Since we're both instructed the only place to find the truth is in some journal, I guess we'll both be sent to our rooms to read some. :wink:
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8477
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Is scientific knowledge the best?

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:33 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:31 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:54 pm
Wow. I'm just astounded at how wrongly-informed...or perhaps just uninformed you are. :shock: And you don't seem to mind flaunting it...wow.

Sorry; you're just dead wrong again. Go read any journal on the subject, and you'll find out you're wrong.

I'm not going to take refelctions from a moron who thinks a sky daddy is the answer to everything.
I'm sorry I missed this discussion earlier. I have to say, I am in total agreement with every one of your responses on this thread. Perhaps best summed up by, "It does not change the fact that there are no explanations, there are just more intricate descriptions. My own view is that science has no interest, as science, in why anything is what it is or does what it does (as if reality were contingent on something else (sky daddy?)--as the mystics on this thread like IC contend), science only seeks to identify what things actually are and what they actually do, NOT WHY.

Since we're both instructed the only place to find the truth is in some journal, I guess we'll both be sent to our rooms to read some. :wink:
Indeed. Thanks for the support.
Sometimes I think I'm in a nuthouse.
There are so many people here who think they know the answer to everything, and completely lack humility.
IC is possibly the worst.
It seems obvious that in a world where everyone that thinks they know the answer to life the universe and everything, can never find clear agreement with everyone else who thinks they know the answer to life the universe and everything, it is doubtful than anyone could ever have an answer to what is likely to be a meaningless question in the first place.
They then go on to misuse and abuse philosophy as if it were a portal for them to express their false beliefs rather than a methodology to unpack those self same delusions.
Post Reply