How computer can decide?

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bahman
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How computer can decide?

Post by bahman »

I was wondering how a computer can decide considering the fact that it is a deterministic system? I know that there is infrastructure in the CPU that does "if" operation. I was wondering if someone could possibly explain how it works in simple language.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:02 pm I was wondering how a computer can decide considering the fact that it is a deterministic system? I know that there is infrastructure in the CPU that does "if" operation. I was wondering if someone could possibly explain how it works in simple language.
I wouldn't say that computers are deterministic systems, by the way.

At any rate, you can program computers to factor variable data, acquired while the program is executing, where it weights different options differently based on a heuristic that the programmer set up.
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bahman
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:08 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:02 pm I was wondering how a computer can decide considering the fact that it is a deterministic system? I know that there is infrastructure in the CPU that does "if" operation. I was wondering if someone could possibly explain how it works in simple language.
I wouldn't say that computers are deterministic systems, by the way.

At any rate, you can program computers to factor variable data, acquired while the program is executing, where it weights different options differently based on a heuristic that the programmer set up.
The Schrodinger equation is deterministic.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:29 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:08 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:02 pm I was wondering how a computer can decide considering the fact that it is a deterministic system? I know that there is infrastructure in the CPU that does "if" operation. I was wondering if someone could possibly explain how it works in simple language.
I wouldn't say that computers are deterministic systems, by the way.

At any rate, you can program computers to factor variable data, acquired while the program is executing, where it weights different options differently based on a heuristic that the programmer set up.
The Schrodinger equation is deterministic.
I'm not a realist on mathematics.
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bahman
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:50 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:29 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:08 pm

I wouldn't say that computers are deterministic systems, by the way.

At any rate, you can program computers to factor variable data, acquired while the program is executing, where it weights different options differently based on a heuristic that the programmer set up.
The Schrodinger equation is deterministic.
I'm not a realist on mathematics.
I am not either. I think that everything is interconnected. But the computer approximately, with a very good degree, is a deterministic thing.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:13 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:50 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:29 pm
The Schrodinger equation is deterministic.
I'm not a realist on mathematics.
I am not either. I think that everything is interconnected. But the computer approximately, with a very good degree, is a deterministic thing.
I wouldn't say that determinism is of "degrees."
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bahman
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:18 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:13 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:50 pm

I'm not a realist on mathematics.
I am not either. I think that everything is interconnected. But the computer approximately, with a very good degree, is a deterministic thing.
I wouldn't say that determinism is of "degrees."
Determinism is just an approximation.
Skepdick
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by Skepdick »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:02 pm I was wondering how a computer can decide considering the fact that it is a deterministic system?
It doesn't have to be deterministic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondeterm ... rogramming
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondeterm ... _algorithm

The most trivial example of a non-deterministic program is one which returns a random number. Same function - different result.

The problem then becomes one of asking: Is this function "Truly random", or are there some regularities in its behaviour?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_ ... r#Problems
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bahman
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by bahman »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:40 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:02 pm I was wondering how a computer can decide considering the fact that it is a deterministic system?
It doesn't have to be deterministic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondeterm ... rogramming
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondeterm ... _algorithm

The most trivial example of a non-deterministic program is one which returns a random number. Same function - different result.

The problem then becomes one of asking: Is this function "Truly random", or are there some regularities in its behaviour?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_ ... r#Problems
I was not asking about the random generators.
Skepdick
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by Skepdick »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:24 pm I was not asking about the random generators.
You were asking about determinism and non-determinism.

A function which gives a different result for the same input is non-deterministic.

Such as a random number generator.
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bahman
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by bahman »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:50 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:24 pm I was not asking about the random generators.
You were asking about determinism and non-determinism.

A function which gives a different result for the same input is non-deterministic.

Such as a random number generator.
I asked how the "if" command works knowing the fact that the system is deterministic.
Skepdick
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by Skepdick »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:57 pm I asked how the "if" command works knowing the fact that the system is deterministic.
IF is branching.

Code: Select all

if random_number() > 55:
   print("Chicken dinner!")
else
  print("Whatever!")
What do you think the above program will print out?
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bahman
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by bahman »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:14 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:57 pm I asked how the "if" command works knowing the fact that the system is deterministic.
IF is branching.

Code: Select all

if random_number() > 55:
   print("Chicken dinner!")
else
  print("Whatever!")
What do you think the above program will print out?
I am interested in such a code:

Code: Select all

if 65 > 55:
   print("Chicken dinner!")
else
  print("Whatever!")
  
You of course get "Chicken dinner". My question is that how "if 65> 55" is executed at the hardware level.
Skepdick
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by Skepdick »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:26 pm You of course get "Chicken dinner". My question is that how "if 65> 55" is executed at the hardware level.
Are you asking about the circuit diagram for the > operator,

or the CMP command in the X86 instruction set.

https://c9x.me/x86/html/file_module_x86_id_35.html
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bahman
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Re: How computer can decide?

Post by bahman »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:35 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:26 pm You of course get "Chicken dinner". My question is that how "if 65> 55" is executed at the hardware level.
Are you asking about the circuit diagram for the > operator,
Yes.
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