Plank length and what is between

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:49 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:26 pm
Space bends because of another stronger reason, gravitational waves, that recently were observed.
Again, with gravitational waves, what we actually observed was a laser set-up.
There are direct devices as well but they are not that sensitive yet.
Whatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.
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bahman
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Re: Plank length and what is between

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Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:49 pm

Again, with gravitational waves, what we actually observed was a laser set-up.
There are direct devices as well but they are not that sensitive yet.
Whatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.
What else do you expect?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Plank length and what is between

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bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:11 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 pm
There are direct devices as well but they are not that sensitive yet.
Whatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.
What else do you expect?
For you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature. :D
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bahman
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Re: Plank length and what is between

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Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:11 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pm
Whatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.
What else do you expect?
For you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature. :D
Of course not, for that you need to travel into a black-hole. Do you want to try that? :)
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attofishpi
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by attofishpi »

bahman wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:21 pm
attofishpi wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:06 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:33 am This is believed to be the shortest distance between two points in space so-called Plank length. What is between two points? It cannot be nothing since otherwise two points obviously coincide. Therefore, there is something between the two points. This means that space is a substance. Following the same logic, it follows that time also is a substance.
..and right there is what I keep banging on about OUR REAL_IT_Y is binary.
What do you mean by binary here?
The BIT above. (do I spell it out - break things down finite enough?)

bahman wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:21 pm
attofishpi wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:06 pm Zeno's Paradox - eventually - either there is an EVENT or there is NOT an EVENT.
Which Zeno's paradox, you are talking about here?

THE Zeno paradox.
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by attofishpi »

Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:11 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pm
Whatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.
What else do you expect?
For you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature. :D
If we are talking about the measurement of gravitational waves - indeed - it IS the curvature of spacetime (a resultant effect of the gravitational wave) that the LIGO experiment successfully detected.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by Terrapin Station »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:40 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:11 pm
What else do you expect?
For you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature. :D
If we are talking about the measurement of gravitational waves - indeed - it IS the curvature of spacetime (a resultant effect of the gravitational wave) that the LIGO experiment successfully detected.
What was detected was changes in a laser set-up.
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by attofishpi »

Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:58 pm
attofishpi wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:40 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pm

For you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature. :D
If we are talking about the measurement of gravitational waves - indeed - it IS the curvature of spacetime (a resultant effect of the gravitational wave) that the LIGO experiment successfully detected.
What was detected was changes in a laser set-up.
Well of course they use lasers - the most accurate measurement device at our disposal to detect such an infinitesimal small thing as a fluctuation in SPACETIME - they are however, detecting the curvature of SPACETIME - space and time cannot be separated otherwise calling such a things as a 'gravitational wave' is redundant.
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Re: Plank length and what is between

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attofishpi wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:21 am
Well of course they use lasers - the most accurate measurement device at our disposal to detect such an infinitesimal small thing as a fluctuation in SPACETIME - they are however, detecting the curvature of SPACETIME -
No. We're detecting changes in the laser set-up. We theorize that those changes have something to do with a spacetime curvature, based on particular ontological views about what spacetime is (among other assumptions). We don't literally observe spacetime (and on my view, this is because spacetime is not a substance of container of any sort of whatever in itself)
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by attofishpi »

Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:15 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:21 am
Well of course they use lasers - the most accurate measurement device at our disposal to detect such an infinitesimal small thing as a fluctuation in SPACETIME - they are however, detecting the curvature of SPACETIME -
No. We're detecting changes in the laser set-up. We theorize that those changes have something to do with a spacetime curvature, based on particular ontological views about what spacetime is (among other assumptions). We don't literally observe spacetime (and on my view, this is because spacetime is not a substance of container of any sort of whatever in itself)
The lasers detected the fluctuation of gravitational waves - sure measured the difference in the speed of light within the wave, but this still couples with the effect of what a gravitational wave IS - spacetime curvature.
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Re: Plank length and what is between

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attofishpi wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:07 pm The lasers detected the fluctuation of gravitational waves
That's a theoretical conclusion. It's not something we actually observe.
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by attofishpi »

Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:26 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:07 pm The lasers detected the fluctuation of gravitational waves
That's a theoretical conclusion. It's not something we actually observe.
Not sure why you are insisting that it remains a theoretical conclusion. A conclusion in my book IS something observed.


In any case, some people might like to watch this regarding the topic of LIGO and gravitational waves - it goes for 1hr40mins hosted by Brian G.

Gravitational Waves: A New Era of Astronomy Begins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj6vV3T4ok8
Scott Mayers
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by Scott Mayers »

bahman wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:33 am This is believed to be the shortest distance between two points in space so-called Plank length. What is between two points? It cannot be nothing since otherwise two points obviously coincide. Therefore, there is something between the two points. This means that space is a substance. Following the same logic, it follows that time also is a substance.
Plank length is NOT a literal quantizable 'minimum'. It is defined in a way that others can determine a unit without a particular 'standard', like the original 'meter' being defined by a particular bar's length, for instance. When using literal standards of length, it is hard to use macro-objects (relative to quantum sizes) given they can be affected by temperature differences, material used, etc. It may also be the present smallest agreed to unit (conventional minimum), but it doesn't mean that there is some actual smallest interval greater than zero other than AT an interval of zero size, which would just be a point. But there are still paradoxes about spacial measures; just not related to the Plank length.

I understand that this measure is a 'limit' of practical means of measuring. For instance, our fingers are of such a size that there is a limit to what we can use fingers. Plank is a limit based on the smallest means of measuring a specific unit size. The same goes with 0K, a measure that can only be inferred (as a singularity) but not something you can measure because at that temperature, no movement exists. So you cannot 'measure' it without CAUSING such points in space being measured to have some minimum limit.
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Re: Plank length and what is between

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attofishpi wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:39 pm Not sure why you are insisting that it remains a theoretical conclusion. A conclusion in my book IS something observed.
In other words, what are you receiving sensory data from? (What are you looking at?)
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Re: Plank length and what is between

Post by attofishpi »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:34 pm
attofishpi wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:39 pm Not sure why you are insisting that it remains a theoretical conclusion. A conclusion in my book IS something observed.
In other words, what are you receiving sensory data from? (What are you looking at?)

The same tool you are looking at right now, technology.
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