Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
User avatar
Psychonaut
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: Merseyside, UK

Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by Psychonaut » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:00 pm

I saw a piece in New Scientist the other day. It was reporting a study which had compared memory in seniors depending on whether they came from the USA or the UK.

It reported as an aside that, contrary to expectations, the amount of alcohol drunk correlated positively with continued memory function in old age.

I cannot help but think that had this been orange juice, or had the correlation been negative, much more would have been made of it, both in new scientist and the general press.

I guess reporters don't want to be seen as irresponsible for promoting something dangerous, but can this quietude be the very thing that generates the picture of danger?

Why must people continue to accept the media, business and governments as generally benign just on their say-so?

realunoriginal
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by realunoriginal » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:09 pm

Beer inebriates you: "liquid courage" as we call it in the States...

Nothing more, nothing less. It does not make you "stronger", "cleverer", or "more attractive".

If anything, alcohol makes you less of a coward.

duszek
Posts: 2271
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:14 pm

I would not believe it.
There are also some "scientific" studies that drinking red wine protects you against ... I have forgotten.
And only recently, that drinking coffee protects you against Alzheimer. But at least three cups per day.

How about all the other factors ?
I do not drink alcohol, and very little coffee.
Are there any studies about the health of people who drink just water ?
As compared to coffee drinkers or tea drinkers ?
Or beer drinkers ?
And shall we differentiate according to all the other things ? (millions of them)

I do not believe it.
It defies logic.

User avatar
Psychonaut
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: Merseyside, UK

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by Psychonaut » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:47 pm

No, it defies preconception and so, apparently, is not even remotely credible.

Beer=bad, therefore it can have no positive effects right?
Cos, like, things never have a mixture of positive and negative effects, do they?

By the way, the benefits of moderate wine consumption are well documented.

duszek
Posts: 2271
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:11 pm

And after beer and wine, at least three cups of coffee and you are safe from Alzheimer.
Give me a break, Psycho.
The factors are in their millions.
You would need at least ten clones, who lead identical lives in EVERY respect, and five of them drink beer, and the other five do not.
Then you could say something.

If beer is good for you, then drink it.
There must be a good reason why your particular body is yearning for it at a particular time.
Like the body of Rachel is yearning for coffee.
My body is yearning for other things, depending on the occasion.
If the yearning sounds more or less reasonable, I give in to it, otherwise I abstain.

User avatar
Psychonaut
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: Merseyside, UK

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by Psychonaut » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:28 pm

Let us review things, shall we.

My Claims:
1.) That New Scientist has reported, as a side note, that there is a correlation between the consumption of beer and increased memory function in old age.
2.) That if beer was a less taboo product, such as coffee, any possible health benefits would receive much wider and much more ecstatic coverage.
3.) That the manner in which the health benefits and detriments of various products are reported leads to a skewed world-view in which objects are seen as simply good and bad, rather than appropriate or inappropriate, and that this demonisation is self-feeding as positive aspects of objects considered to be, overall, negative are under-reported while negative aspects of objects considered to be, overall, positive are over-reported. Further, that the burden of proof is diminished for studies which confirm these sentiments of goodness and badness, while it is unreasonably increased for those which contradict it.

Not My Claims:
1.) Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive (the title was tongue-in-cheek).
2.) Beer causes increased memory function in old age.

More of My Claims:
4.) You should read more carefully.
5.) Your understanding of the Philosophy of Science is limited.

duszek
Posts: 2271
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:27 pm

Psychonaut wrote:Let us review things, shall we.

My Claims:
1.) That New Scientist has reported, as a side note, that there is a correlation between the consumption of beer and increased memory function in old age.
2.) That if beer was a less taboo product, such as coffee, any possible health benefits would receive much wider and much more ecstatic coverage.
3.) That the manner in which the health benefits and detriments of various products are reported leads to a skewed world-view in which objects are seen as simply good and bad, rather than appropriate or inappropriate, and that this demonisation is self-feeding as positive aspects of objects considered to be, overall, negative are under-reported while negative aspects of objects considered to be, overall, positive are over-reported. Further, that the burden of proof is diminished for studies which confirm these sentiments of goodness and badness, while it is unreasonably increased for those which contradict it.

Not My Claims:
1.) Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive (the title was tongue-in-cheek).
2.) Beer causes increased memory function in old age.

More of My Claims:
4.) You should read more carefully.
5.) Your understanding of the Philosophy of Science is limited.

I agree with Claim 1.
I do not think that ecstatic coverage of possible health benefits can be of any use at all. I doubt that generalizations are possible at all. (Claim 2. )
Health benefits of products are fairy tales, because generalizations are not possible. (Claim 3.)

I agree with not your claims 1. and 2.
No comment on the two additional claims.

Have a beer and think about my excellent argument about 10 clones.
Relax and take your time.

User avatar
Psychonaut
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: Merseyside, UK

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by Psychonaut » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:34 pm

How is it an argument?

I have never once stated a claim regarding valid inferences from such studies.

If you want to discuss that, make your own thread.

duszek
Posts: 2271
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:44 pm

Claim 2. and 3. implies clearly that health benefits are POSSIBLE.
And should be discussed ecstatically and enthousiastically etc.

I doubt it.
Because generalizations are not possible, according to me.

But I have to leave anyway.
Good night.

But maybe I really missed the point. Sorry. It was not intentional.

User avatar
Psychonaut
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: Merseyside, UK

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by Psychonaut » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:04 pm

I did not say that beer should receive such coverage, only that it would.

Various objects do have health benefits and detriments though it is difficult to determine them, for various reasons.

The dubiousness of such claims is precisely why science produces an ongoing 'best picture' of the world, and does not make any pretence to objectivism. Studies are conducted in the best possible way that they can be and are open to revision, the only topics of study that can properly be excluded are those as can have no comparison, such as the efficacy of various talking therapies.

User avatar
Satyr
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:55 pm
Location: The Edge
Contact:

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by Satyr » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:40 am

A beer or ...twelve, will make this thread more than mental masturbation.

We have Psycho to thank for it.

I need a drink now.

What if I am a brain in a vat full of beer?

User avatar
Psychonaut
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: Merseyside, UK

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by Psychonaut » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:05 pm

duszek, it wasn't my original point but.. do you accept there to be a causal link between tobacco smoking and cancer?

realunoriginal
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: Beer makes you stronger, cleverer and more attractive

Post by realunoriginal » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:45 am

This thread is a perfect example of why faggots should not be trusted and should be exterminated...

(from philosophy forums that is)

If Psychofag was a "smart" fag then that would be a different matter...unfortunately that is not the case here.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest