Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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onglob
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Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by onglob »

According to modern physics theory , time is the fourth dimension .
But time is not like the other three dimensions , because you can move back and forth freely in
each of three dimensions , but we move in time in just one direction , although it passes differently
in different coordinates with different speed and would stop only in a coordinate moving at the speed
of light .
So can we say we would enter the 4 dimensional world at or above the speed of light that , according to our current scientific knowledge , is unachievable ?
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Harbal
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Harbal »

onglob wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm
So can we say we would enter the 4 dimensional world at or above the speed of light that , according to our current scientific knowledge , is unachievable ?
If a human body were to be propelled at the speed of light, I very much doubt that it would be in any condition to appreciate the passing of time.
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Paradigmer
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Paradigmer »

onglob wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm According to modern physics theory , time is the fourth dimension .
But time is not like the other three dimensions , because you can move back and forth freely in
each of three dimensions , but we move in time in just one direction , although it passes differently
in different coordinates with different speed and would stop only in a coordinate moving at the speed
of light .
So can we say we would enter the 4 dimensional world at or above the speed of light that , according to our current scientific knowledge , is unachievable ?
The short answer is no.

The current form of modern physics is merely a mathematical interpretation of the objective reality with its postulated subjective reality. Its validated theories are useful for pragmatic theory of truth with its quantifications that could work in the objective reality, but they do not refer to reality.

“As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.” - Albert Einstein

“Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live.” - Albert Einstein
Age
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Age »

onglob wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm According to modern physics theory , time is the fourth dimension .
But time is not like the other three dimensions , because you can move back and forth freely in
each of three dimensions , but we move in time in just one direction , although it passes differently
in different coordinates with different speed and would stop only in a coordinate moving at the speed
of light .
So can we say we would enter the 4 dimensional world at or above the speed of light that , according to our current scientific knowledge , is unachievable ?
I was NOT AWARE that the definition of the word 'time' had been resolved once and for all in the, so called, "modern physics", of the days of when this was being written.

So, what is the One and ONLY actual definition for the word 'time', in the "modern physics" of the time, or day, of when you wrote this?
Age
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:50 pm
onglob wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm
So can we say we would enter the 4 dimensional world at or above the speed of light that , according to our current scientific knowledge , is unachievable ?
If a human body were to be propelled at the speed of light, I very much doubt that it would be in any condition to appreciate the passing of time.
You say this based on not what has been actually proven YET, but on what has been said, and claimed, would happen, correct?

I am not sure if you were around in the days when it was claimed that it would be impossible to travel faster than the speed of a horse, as the human body would not be able to handle that speed, but it once was also a claim made, which was said would happen. But, unfortunately, was actually proven UNTRUE, as well.
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Harbal
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:39 am
You say this based on not what has been actually proven YET, but on what has been said, and claimed, would happen, correct?

I am not sure if you were around in the days when it was claimed that it would be impossible to travel faster than the speed of a horse, as the human body would not be able to handle that speed, but it once was also a claim made, which was said would happen. But, unfortunately, was actually proven UNTRUE, as well.
Yes, the belief that the human body would not be able to handle travelling at the speed of a horse did turn out to be untrue, but I believe it would have been a different story had horses travelled at the speed of light. Besides, isn't there something in the laws of physics that says anything with mass cannot travel at the speed of light?
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:55 am
Age wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:39 am
You say this based on not what has been actually proven YET, but on what has been said, and claimed, would happen, correct?

I am not sure if you were around in the days when it was claimed that it would be impossible to travel faster than the speed of a horse, as the human body would not be able to handle that speed, but it once was also a claim made, which was said would happen. But, unfortunately, was actually proven UNTRUE, as well.
Yes, the belief that the human body would not be able to handle travelling at the speed of a horse did turn out to be untrue, but I believe it would have been a different story had horses travelled at the speed of light. Besides, isn't there something in the laws of physics that says anything with mass cannot travel at the speed of light?
That was my point, and question. It is said that it can not happen, (in the human being written laws of physics), but has it actually been proven true YET?

Just about absolutely EVERY thing that human beings have imagined and have achieved so far, was once said to be impossible, and can NOT happen. That is; until they tested it and/or put their ingenuity to the test.
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Harbal
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:05 am

That was my point, and question. It is said that it can not happen, (in the human being written laws of physics), but has it actually been proven true YET?

Just about absolutely EVERY thing that human beings have imagined and have achieved so far, was once said to be impossible, and can NOT happen. That is; until they tested it and/or put their ingenuity to the test.
I never claimed it to be more than an opinion, albeit a very reasonable one.
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:21 am
Age wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:05 am

That was my point, and question. It is said that it can not happen, (in the human being written laws of physics), but has it actually been proven true YET?

Just about absolutely EVERY thing that human beings have imagined and have achieved so far, was once said to be impossible, and can NOT happen. That is; until they tested it and/or put their ingenuity to the test.
I never claimed it to be more than an opinion, albeit a very reasonable one.
I never claimed that you claimed it to be more than an opinion.

The very reason I asked you the non-assuming, open clarifying question;
You say this based on not what has been actually proven YET, but on what has been said, and claimed, would happen, correct? was to make sure that what you said here was NOT a claim to be anything more than just an opinion of yours.

See, I may have MISSED where an actual experiment had been performed and a thorough conclusion had been arrived at already. I was just making sure that one has NOT YET been done, NOR found, which you were aware of anyway.
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Harbal
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:34 am
See, I may have MISSED where an actual experiment had been performed and a thorough conclusion had been arrived at already. I was just making sure that one has NOT YET been done, NOR found, which you were aware of anyway.
No, I don't know if it can be proved that a human being could not survive light speed travel, but I very much suspect it can.
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by onglob »

Harbal wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:50 pm
onglob wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm
So can we say we would enter the 4 dimensional world at or above the speed of light that , according to our current scientific knowledge , is unachievable ?
If a human body were to be propelled at the speed of light, I very much doubt that it would be in any condition to appreciate the passing of time.
What I put forward is just an imagination , and question is not about physiological condition of human body at the speed of light .
It is just an imagination that latest theoretical knowledge just tells that the passage of time stops at the speed of light , so it may suggest that time starts to behave like other three dimensions , and the traveler (e.g. a photon) can be present at any point in the tree dimensional space at one time , but even in that case the traveler cannot move freely in time (e.g. to the past) .
So when the relativity of space and time be broken , will it be at a speed above the speed of light ?

Does our current theoretical knowledge of science has any answer for that question ?

It may seems absurd or I may be totally wrong about the theories of modern physics .
But I try to follow the idea that :
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution."
Einstein
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Impenitent »

if you want to understand the experience of time travel, ask me tomorrow

-Imp
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Paradigmer
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Paradigmer »

onglob wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:34 pm What I put forward is just an imagination , and question is not about physiological condition of human body at the speed of light .
It is just an imagination that latest theoretical knowledge just tells that the passage of time stops at the speed of light , so it may suggest that time starts to behave like other three dimensions , and the traveler (e.g. a photon) can be present at any point in the tree dimensional space at one time , but even in that case the traveler cannot move freely in time (e.g. to the past) .
So when the relativity of space and time be broken , will it be at a speed above the speed of light ?
Electromagnetic radiation spirals in its orthogonal spin to traverse at its light speed. This means it is intrinsically propagating at twice the light speed for photon to propagate at the light speed. Optically visible light is merely a frequency of an electromagnetic radiation in the visible spectrum.

If you can grasp this, you would understand there is no such thing as "the relativity of space and time be broken".
onglob wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:34 pm
Does our current theoretical knowledge of science has any answer for that question ?
Not really. The axioms of modern physics have never been proven beyond its pragmatic theories of truth, least to say much of what it had postulated were not proven at all.

This is much like the knowledge of geocentrism during the flat Earth era, despite were proven valid for its pragmatic theories of truth, nothing fundamental about it was actually true.

“Despite quantitative research with truth value is an essential aspect for scientific works,
its qualitative analysis must precede quantitative analysis.” - Source to be known
onglob wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:34 pm It may seems absurd or I may be totally wrong about the theories of modern physics .
But I try to follow the idea that :
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution."
Einstein
It is indeed true imagination would 'embrace the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.', whereas Einstein also emphasized it as: "Imagination will take you everywhere.”

Nonetheless, it is also important to distinguish myths from facts as was famously said:
"We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact.” - Carl Sagan

Not realize myths from facts in the realm of mainstream modern physics, one would be so lost in the abyss of its science delusion with its emulations of reality.

“A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.” - Albert Einstein

“Knowing how to quantitatively predict a phenomenon would work with its model is one thing,
how does the phenomenon actually work in reality could be another thing.” - Source to be known
onglob
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by onglob »

Paradigmer wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:40 am
onglob wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:34 pm What I put forward is just an imagination , and question is not about physiological condition of human body at the speed of light .
It is just an imagination that latest theoretical knowledge just tells that the passage of time stops at the speed of light , so it may suggest that time starts to behave like other three dimensions , and the traveler (e.g. a photon) can be present at any point in the tree dimensional space at one time , but even in that case the traveler cannot move freely in time (e.g. to the past) .
So when the relativity of space and time be broken , will it be at a speed above the speed of light ?
Electromagnetic radiation spirals in its orthogonal spin to traverse at its light speed. This means it is intrinsically propagating at twice the light speed for photon to propagate at the light speed. Optically visible light is merely a frequency of an electromagnetic radiation in the visible spectrum.

If you can grasp this, you would understand there is no such thing as "the relativity of space and time be broken".
So are you telling that the speed of a phenomenon exceeds the speed of light ?
Modern physics definitely limits the maximum speed of any phenomenon to the speed of
light .
But in classic physics speed is a relative concept and depends on the speed of the observer ,
so if observer A moves at half of light speed(relative to observer B) and measures the speed of a phenomenon X equal to speed of light , the speed of phenomenon X should be 1.5 times the speed of light for observer B that's actually not true and according to modern physics phenomenon X is also moving at the speed of light and that can only be possible if distance (space) change with speed, indicating the relativity of space and time .
But there is no relativity between the dimensions of a 3D space , so I postulated that in a 4D space the relativity of space (with 3 dimensions) and time (the 4th dimension) should be broken .
Paradigmer wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:40 am Nonetheless, it is also important to distinguish myths from facts as was famously said:
"We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact.” - Carl Sagan
I agree that we should not go too far in imagination and our imaginations should be consistent with our current knowledge . But when the answers to some questions - or explanation to some new observations - goes beyond the realm of our knowledge, and not very remote to that realm , imaginations for the answers of those questions may stimulate progress and give birth to evolution of our science .
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Paradigmer
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Re: Do we leave in a 3D or 4D world ?

Post by Paradigmer »

onglob wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:49 pm But there is no relativity between the dimensions of a 3D space , so I postulated that in a 4D space the relativity of space (with 3 dimensions) and time (the 4th dimension) should be broken .
There indeed is 'no relativity between the dimensions of a 3D space'.

Here are a few more examples of the FTL empirical observations:
- Galaxy Cluster Spawns Stars Faster Than Any In Known Universe
- Cartwheel Galaxy Makes Waves In New NASA Image

“If the equation for a universal law of physics cannot explain reality with its mathematical construct, it is not the reality is incorrect.” - Source to be known

A well-conceived '4D space in the relativity of space (with 3 dimensions) and time (the 4th dimension)', could resolve the FTL anomaly, in which the anomaly was explained with your example.

Nonetheless, it might not be the relativistic transformation of the 4D space that causes the anomaly of the FTL in the 3D world.

We could be living in an aetheric 4D structure of the cosmos in the 3D world.

BTW, the Higgs field is an all-pervasive aetheric field.

"My opinion about Miller's experiments is the following. ... Should the positive result be confirmed, then the special theory of relativity and with it the general theory of relativity, in its current form, would be invalid. Experimentum summus judex. Only the equivalence of inertia and gravitation would remain, however, they would have to lead to a significantly different theory." - Albert Einstein, in a letter to Edwin E. Slosson, July 1925

If you could grasp this, you would be able to unify relativity with quantum mechanics in the paradigm shift to an aetheric worldview; the reified 4D space would still not reconcile with quantum mechanics.
onglob wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:49 pm I agree that we should not go too far in imagination and our imaginations should be consistent with our current knowledge . But when the answers to some questions - or explanation to some new observations - goes beyond the realm of our knowledge, and not very remote to that realm , imaginations for the answers of those questions may stimulate progress and give birth to evolution of our science .
You should not be afraid of going too far for working up your imagination to the state of vision all the way as much as you could.

“Work up imagination to the state of vision.” - William Blake

Nonetheless, it is essential to distinguish myths from facts.

And it is important to note the 'current knowledge" you mentioned, is merely the subjective knowledge for its pragmatic theory of truth, which is not tantamount to the objective knowledge.

Any hypothesis extrapolated from a foundation that was based on an incorrect paradigm of reality would be fallacious at its best, this is despite its valid conclusions deduced in its abstract can be analytically true, and can also pragmatically work. Nonetheless, a fallaciously postulated paradigm of the cosmos, would inevitably flop under the law of noncontradiction in its epistemic theory of truth.

The 'current knowledge" as proposed with the mainstream modern physics in its paradigm of the cosmos, flopped on every aspect when scrutinized under the law of noncontradiction when referred to reality.
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