On the subject of “Eternalism” and the “Block Universe” theory...

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Cerveny
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Re: On the subject of “Eternalism” and the “Block Universe” theory...

Post by Cerveny »

seeds wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:37 pm
Cerveny wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:51 pm The Einstein’s world, you should admit, seems to be rather out of the good sense and off the reality:(
Cerveny, I'm not sure of what you're getting at. Please clarify.
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As I read somewhere, Einstein slowed down physics by a hundred years :( Those who do not see that determinism is wrong, empty space is wrong, the infinitely subtle continuum is wrong, they should look for another hobby, maybe it would help them open their minds ...
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Re: On the subject of “Eternalism” and the “Block Universe” theory...

Post by Impenitent »

while annoying, the pain endured from stepping on a lego is not everlasting...

-Imp
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bahman
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Re: On the subject of “Eternalism” and the “Block Universe” theory...

Post by bahman »

seeds wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:39 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:30 am Dejavu. The future could be real. But the mind is for sure real since it can change the future.
Nah, it (the future of this universe's material phenomena) may indeed exist as a vast (superpositioned?) field of infinite probabilities or possibilities, but it's highly unlikely that the future is real in the way it is being described in the "Big Think" video.

Furthermore, why do you mention the word - "déjà vu"?
_______
I use dejavu because it is always tight with a bad feeling about the future. So you borrow from the past to experience the future.
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Re: On the subject of “Eternalism” and the “Block Universe” theory...

Post by seeds »

bahman wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:53 pm
seeds wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:39 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:30 am Dejavu. The future could be real. But the mind is for sure real since it can change the future.
Nah, it (the future of this universe's material phenomena) may indeed exist as a vast (superpositioned?) field of infinite probabilities or possibilities, but it's highly unlikely that the future is real in the way it is being described in the "Big Think" video.

Furthermore, why do you mention the word - "déjà vu"?
_______
I use dejavu because it is always tight with a bad feeling about the future. So you borrow from the past to experience the future.
Strictly speaking, “déjà vu” doesn’t have anything to do with “bad feelings” about the future,...

(perhaps the word “premonition” would be more fitting)

...but is more of a sensation that whatever event or circumstance you may be experiencing at any given moment is something you seem to have a vivid memory of experiencing before.

I actually have a highly speculative (quantum based) hypothesis as to how it works.

( :shock: - Oh no, is he really going to present another one of his wacky theories? :cry: - I’m afraid so. :P)

To help visualize this, I am going to invoke physicist David Bohm’s concept of the “Implicate Order” and the “Explicate Order.”

In this thought experiment, the two of us are standing on a street corner observing a traffic accident as it transpires in real time...

Image

...And as we view the accident, we both experience an intense feeling of déjà vu, or that eerie feeling (memory) of having already experienced the event as it is occurring.

What I am about to suggest is that there are two phases to the event.

The first phase occurs at Bohm's "implicate" level of the universe (the quantum).

And as the theory goes, the implicate (or “non-local”) level of reality appears to exist in a state of what Bohm referred to as “enfoldment,” or a (holographic-like) state of “oneness” of interpenetrating fields of quantum information (in what Bohm called the “holomovement”)

Now what that implies is that the quantum fabric of our bodies and brains is seamlessly interwoven with the quantum fabric composing the vehicles involved in the accident (including the associated light and sounds, etc.).

So at least at the implicate level of reality (again, what Bohm calls the “holomovement”) there is no separation between us and the streaming circumstances of the accident.

Now In light of that, I suggest that, again, at least at the implicate level of reality; the flowing event of the accident is being “instantaneously” encoded in the quantum fabric of our brains as the event is taking place.

Now with the above in mind, the second phase of the event would then occur up at Bohm's "explicate" (“local”) level of the universe, where everything is mediated by the “sloggingly slow” speeds of light and sound (slow when compared to the implicate level).

So, for us standing on the street corner, the time it would take for the light and sounds of the car crash to reach our eyes and ears, and thus be processed through the neural-pathways of our brains, is a fraction of a second behind the instantaneous processing that is taking place at the implicate level of reality.

And if you factor in the time it takes for the event to finally be apprehended and acknowledged by the cognitive aspect of our central consciousness, it is easy to imagine a slightly out-of-sync situation (a sort of “latency”) occurring between the informational foundation of matter and that of the final reckoning of consciousness.

Therefore, what I am speculatively suggesting is that for whatever reason, every once in a while the cognitive aspect of our consciousness somehow gains access to those already recorded patterns of information at the implicate level of reality in such a way that makes it appear as a flowing memory of the event when, in fact, the event is obviously "freshly occurring" right before our eyes up at the “explicate” level of the universe,...

...thus producing the déjà vu effect.

(I confess that many times while tripping on LSD back in my hippie days, I experienced long and vivid episodes of extreme déjà vu. Man it was weird. :shock:)

The preceding (assuming that it might be a possibility) would imply that there exists some sort of filtering mechanism in our brains that almost always prevents such a thing. Otherwise, we would experience the universe as a constant state of déjà vu.
_______
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bahman
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Re: On the subject of “Eternalism” and the “Block Universe” theory...

Post by bahman »

seeds wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:14 am
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:53 pm
seeds wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:39 pm
Nah, it (the future of this universe's material phenomena) may indeed exist as a vast (superpositioned?) field of infinite probabilities or possibilities, but it's highly unlikely that the future is real in the way it is being described in the "Big Think" video.

Furthermore, why do you mention the word - "déjà vu"?
_______
I use dejavu because it is always tight with a bad feeling about the future. So you borrow from the past to experience the future.
Strictly speaking, “déjà vu” doesn’t have anything to do with “bad feelings” about the future,...

(perhaps the word “premonition” would be more fitting)

...but is more of a sensation that whatever event or circumstance you may be experiencing at any given moment is something you seem to have a vivid memory of experiencing before.

I actually have a highly speculative (quantum based) hypothesis as to how it works.

( :shock: - Oh no, is he really going to present another one of his wacky theories? :cry: - I’m afraid so. :P)

To help visualize this, I am going to invoke physicist David Bohm’s concept of the “Implicate Order” and the “Explicate Order.”

In this thought experiment, the two of us are standing on a street corner observing a traffic accident as it transpires in real time...

Image

...And as we view the accident, we both experience an intense feeling of déjà vu, or that eerie feeling (memory) of having already experienced the event as it is occurring.

What I am about to suggest is that there are two phases to the event.

The first phase occurs at Bohm's "implicate" level of the universe (the quantum).

And as the theory goes, the implicate (or “non-local”) level of reality appears to exist in a state of what Bohm referred to as “enfoldment,” or a (holographic-like) state of “oneness” of interpenetrating fields of quantum information (in what Bohm called the “holomovement”)

Now what that implies is that the quantum fabric of our bodies and brains is seamlessly interwoven with the quantum fabric composing the vehicles involved in the accident (including the associated light and sounds, etc.).

So at least at the implicate level of reality (again, what Bohm calls the “holomovement”) there is no separation between us and the streaming circumstances of the accident.

Now In light of that, I suggest that, again, at least at the implicate level of reality; the flowing event of the accident is being “instantaneously” encoded in the quantum fabric of our brains as the event is taking place.

Now with the above in mind, the second phase of the event would then occur up at Bohm's "explicate" (“local”) level of the universe, where everything is mediated by the “sloggingly slow” speeds of light and sound (slow when compared to the implicate level).

So, for us standing on the street corner, the time it would take for the light and sounds of the car crash to reach our eyes and ears, and thus be processed through the neural-pathways of our brains, is a fraction of a second behind the instantaneous processing that is taking place at the implicate level of reality.

And if you factor in the time it takes for the event to finally be apprehended and acknowledged by the cognitive aspect of our central consciousness, it is easy to imagine a slightly out-of-sync situation (a sort of “latency”) occurring between the informational foundation of matter and that of the final reckoning of consciousness.

Therefore, what I am speculatively suggesting is that for whatever reason, every once in a while the cognitive aspect of our consciousness somehow gains access to those already recorded patterns of information at the implicate level of reality in such a way that makes it appear as a flowing memory of the event when, in fact, the event is obviously "freshly occurring" right before our eyes up at the “explicate” level of the universe,...

...thus producing the déjà vu effect.

(I confess that many times while tripping on LSD back in my hippie days, I experienced long and vivid episodes of extreme déjà vu. Man it was weird. :shock:)

The preceding (assuming that it might be a possibility) would imply that there exists some sort of filtering mechanism in our brains that almost always prevents such a thing. Otherwise, we would experience the universe as a constant state of déjà vu.
_______
Interesting ideas. I will comment on each part later.
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Re: On the subject of “Eternalism” and the “Block Universe” theory...

Post by Cerveny »

Non-applied ("theoretical") physics ceased to be "science" and began to be "art". Something like painting, sculpture or poetry. Hard to find a piece that everyone likes. Something seems incomprehensible, something rigid, something irritating or, on the contrary, little contrasting, naive, uninspiring or uninteresting. However, everyone will find something there:)
"... add another dimension ..." or "... it needs a new particle ..." or "... there must be some hidden parameter ..."
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Re: On the subject of “Eternalism” and the “Block Universe” theory...

Post by philosopher »

Could it be that the block universe is real, and that time direction is a consequence of objects in "now" inherits (and human brains "remember") what happened to them in the past, but the reason they "don't remember the future" is because they have yet to experience/be hit by whatever object/light/whatever comes in, in the future?

That will create the direction or arrow of time illusion.

Just a suggestion.
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