Change cannot happen at now

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by Terrapin Station »

psycho wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:58 pm
When you create a definition you must necessarily go from the general to the particular.
No. Everything you say here is wrong.

First off, that's not what "general" and "particular" conventionally refer to. "Particular" is conventionally a single, specific item in the world, not a type term such as "chair."

Let's straighten out one thing at a time here.
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bahman
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by bahman »

Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective reality.
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:34 pm Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective reality.
You comprehend it by having some basic vocabulary that's learned via ostension (via more or less literally pointing at things in the world and learning terms as names of those things) and then we build on top of that, as we formulate concepts, try to fit new experiences (including utterances that others make), new ostensive definitions, etc. coherently into our already extant conceptual formualtions, making adjustments as necessary, and so on.
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bahman
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:37 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:34 pm Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective reality.
You comprehend it by having some basic vocabulary that's learned via ostension (via more or less literally pointing at things in the world and learning terms as names of those things) and then we build on top of that, as we formulate concepts, try to fit new experiences (including utterances that others make), new ostensive definitions, etc. coherently into our already extant conceptual formualtions, making adjustments as necessary, and so on.
Yes.
psycho
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by psycho »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:44 am
..again, it is only a theory I have from experience of GOD, and the level of 'power' it has over what we perceive as REAL_IT_Y. (GOD is like an A.I.)
This clears things up for me.

We both live in different universes!

:)
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attofishpi
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by attofishpi »

psycho wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:52 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:44 am
..again, it is only a theory I have from experience of GOD, and the level of 'power' it has over what we perceive as REAL_IT_Y. (GOD is like an A.I.)
This clears things up for me.

We both live in different universes!

:)
..we have these things called BOOBS in our universe, do tell me you have those at least! :D
Age
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by Age »

Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:29 pm
psycho wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:58 pm
When you create a definition you must necessarily go from the general to the particular.
No. Everything you say here is wrong.

First off, that's not what "general" and "particular" conventionally refer to.
'Conventionally' in RELATION to 'what', EXACTLY?

WHY do you continually write as though you are the arbitrator, and KNOW, what is "conventionally accepted" or not?
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:29 pm "Particular" is conventionally a single, specific item in the world, not a type term such as "chair."

Let's straighten out one thing at a time here.
Please lets do.

So, how about you START by answering my CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed, to 'you'.
Age
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:34 pm Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective reality.
This is just CIRCULAR babble, itself. IF 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, comprehend your OWN language, because it is rooted in 'object reality', then WHY are 'you' still SO FAR from understanding 'objective reality', itself?

Thee thing IS 'you', human beings, do NOT Truly 'comprehend' the language of "another" even some of the time, let alone all of the time. And this is WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, were still so CONFUSED and living in the MESS of your OWN making and creation.

When, and ONLY when, 'you', human beings, evolve past, where you are now when this was written, and you can put the pieces of the puzzle of YOUR language into a shape and form, which fits PERFECTLY TOGETHER, then you will be able to SEE, crystal clear, what 'objective Reality' Truly IS, which, by the way and contrary to popular BELIEF, is an EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY thing to do. But until then, 'you' will continue, just like you are now, when this was written, and for thousands upon thousands of years, just remain in your OWN never ending 'loop' of NOT being able to answer your OWN questions, which you pose.

Although the roots of YOUR language is VERY deeply rooted in 'objective reality', you are still someway from SEEING, literally, just how deeply ROOTED your current language IS, in the current way that it is presented, in the days of when this was written.

Furthermore, language is CIRCULAR in shape and form. This is because when language is expressed PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then what is SEEN is that it does come back onto itself to REVEAL the FULL and True picture.

Thee ACTUAL reason WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, could NOT YET SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things', 'objective Reality', or thee True and Full picture, is NOT because you can NOT but just because of the 'way' that you LOOK AT and SEE 'things' and because of the language 'you' use to express those VIEWS. That is all.

See, the language that 'you', human beings, used in the days of when this was written, OBVIOUSLY, does NOT paint a True NOR FULL picture of Life nor Reality, Itself. The True, Right, and Correct language, which does illustrate and paint that True and Right BIG and FULL picture, however, has been obtained. Just learning how to express that language to a species, which BELIEVES that they ALREADY KNOW BETTER, just takes some time.

Actually, expressing that language and SHOWING how it is ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct is NOT even an issue AT ALL, REALLY. Getting the elders of that species to become Truly OPEN and CURIOUS again, as they ALL were as young children, so that they COULD SEE thee ACTUAL Truth is what takes/took the longest.
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bahman
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:32 am
bahman wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:34 pm Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective reality.
This is just CIRCULAR babble, itself. IF 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, comprehend your OWN language, because it is rooted in 'object reality', then WHY are 'you' still SO FAR from understanding 'objective reality', itself?

Thee thing IS 'you', human beings, do NOT Truly 'comprehend' the language of "another" even some of the time, let alone all of the time. And this is WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, were still so CONFUSED and living in the MESS of your OWN making and creation.

When, and ONLY when, 'you', human beings, evolve past, where you are now when this was written, and you can put the pieces of the puzzle of YOUR language into a shape and form, which fits PERFECTLY TOGETHER, then you will be able to SEE, crystal clear, what 'objective Reality' Truly IS, which, by the way and contrary to popular BELIEF, is an EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY thing to do. But until then, 'you' will continue, just like you are now, when this was written, and for thousands upon thousands of years, just remain in your OWN never ending 'loop' of NOT being able to answer your OWN questions, which you pose.

Although the roots of YOUR language is VERY deeply rooted in 'objective reality', you are still someway from SEEING, literally, just how deeply ROOTED your current language IS, in the current way that it is presented, in the days of when this was written.

Furthermore, language is CIRCULAR in shape and form. This is because when language is expressed PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then what is SEEN is that it does come back onto itself to REVEAL the FULL and True picture.

Thee ACTUAL reason WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, could NOT YET SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things', 'objective Reality', or thee True and Full picture, is NOT because you can NOT but just because of the 'way' that you LOOK AT and SEE 'things' and because of the language 'you' use to express those VIEWS. That is all.

See, the language that 'you', human beings, used in the days of when this was written, OBVIOUSLY, does NOT paint a True NOR FULL picture of Life nor Reality, Itself. The True, Right, and Correct language, which does illustrate and paint that True and Right BIG and FULL picture, however, has been obtained. Just learning how to express that language to a species, which BELIEVES that they ALREADY KNOW BETTER, just takes some time.

Actually, expressing that language and SHOWING how it is ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct is NOT even an issue AT ALL, REALLY. Getting the elders of that species to become Truly OPEN and CURIOUS again, as they ALL were as young children, so that they COULD SEE thee ACTUAL Truth is what takes/took the longest.
What is the reality to you?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by Terrapin Station »

Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:15 am 'Conventionally' in RELATION to 'what', EXACTLY?
Word usage, obviously.
WHY do you continually write as though you are the arbitrator, and KNOW, what is "conventionally accepted" or not?
I'm not stuck in a basement only observing the mice. If you read a lot, really listen to other people, interact with a lot of other people, it's possible to learn/observe conventional word usage.

Also, since this is a philosophy board and supposedly we're interacting in that context, it's important to read a lot, interact with, etc. people with a background in philosophy if we want to be familiar with conventional usage in philosophy.
psycho
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by psycho »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:37 am
psycho wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:52 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:44 am
..again, it is only a theory I have from experience of GOD, and the level of 'power' it has over what we perceive as REAL_IT_Y. (GOD is like an A.I.)
This clears things up for me.

We both live in different universes!

:)
..we have these things called BOOBS in our universe, do tell me you have those at least! :D
Yep! But they are binary!
Age
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:09 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:32 am
bahman wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:34 pm Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective reality.
This is just CIRCULAR babble, itself. IF 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, comprehend your OWN language, because it is rooted in 'object reality', then WHY are 'you' still SO FAR from understanding 'objective reality', itself?

Thee thing IS 'you', human beings, do NOT Truly 'comprehend' the language of "another" even some of the time, let alone all of the time. And this is WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, were still so CONFUSED and living in the MESS of your OWN making and creation.

When, and ONLY when, 'you', human beings, evolve past, where you are now when this was written, and you can put the pieces of the puzzle of YOUR language into a shape and form, which fits PERFECTLY TOGETHER, then you will be able to SEE, crystal clear, what 'objective Reality' Truly IS, which, by the way and contrary to popular BELIEF, is an EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY thing to do. But until then, 'you' will continue, just like you are now, when this was written, and for thousands upon thousands of years, just remain in your OWN never ending 'loop' of NOT being able to answer your OWN questions, which you pose.

Although the roots of YOUR language is VERY deeply rooted in 'objective reality', you are still someway from SEEING, literally, just how deeply ROOTED your current language IS, in the current way that it is presented, in the days of when this was written.

Furthermore, language is CIRCULAR in shape and form. This is because when language is expressed PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then what is SEEN is that it does come back onto itself to REVEAL the FULL and True picture.

Thee ACTUAL reason WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, could NOT YET SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things', 'objective Reality', or thee True and Full picture, is NOT because you can NOT but just because of the 'way' that you LOOK AT and SEE 'things' and because of the language 'you' use to express those VIEWS. That is all.

See, the language that 'you', human beings, used in the days of when this was written, OBVIOUSLY, does NOT paint a True NOR FULL picture of Life nor Reality, Itself. The True, Right, and Correct language, which does illustrate and paint that True and Right BIG and FULL picture, however, has been obtained. Just learning how to express that language to a species, which BELIEVES that they ALREADY KNOW BETTER, just takes some time.

Actually, expressing that language and SHOWING how it is ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct is NOT even an issue AT ALL, REALLY. Getting the elders of that species to become Truly OPEN and CURIOUS again, as they ALL were as young children, so that they COULD SEE thee ACTUAL Truth is what takes/took the longest.
What is the reality to you?
'That', what 'we', as One', REALLY want to create for "our" Self. When 'we' have created 'that', and thus are living in 'that', then that is the Reality. Until then all is just 'really happening', but not necessarily 'reality', itself.

What is the reality to you?
Last edited by Age on Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bahman
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:21 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:09 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:32 am

This is just CIRCULAR babble, itself. IF 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, comprehend your OWN language, because it is rooted in 'object reality', then WHY are 'you' still SO FAR from understanding 'objective reality', itself?

Thee thing IS 'you', human beings, do NOT Truly 'comprehend' the language of "another" even some of the time, let alone all of the time. And this is WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, were still so CONFUSED and living in the MESS of your OWN making and creation.

When, and ONLY when, 'you', human beings, evolve past, where you are now when this was written, and you can put the pieces of the puzzle of YOUR language into a shape and form, which fits PERFECTLY TOGETHER, then you will be able to SEE, crystal clear, what 'objective Reality' Truly IS, which, by the way and contrary to popular BELIEF, is an EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY thing to do. But until then, 'you' will continue, just like you are now, when this was written, and for thousands upon thousands of years, just remain in your OWN never ending 'loop' of NOT being able to answer your OWN questions, which you pose.

Although the roots of YOUR language is VERY deeply rooted in 'objective reality', you are still someway from SEEING, literally, just how deeply ROOTED your current language IS, in the current way that it is presented, in the days of when this was written.

Furthermore, language is CIRCULAR in shape and form. This is because when language is expressed PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then what is SEEN is that it does come back onto itself to REVEAL the FULL and True picture.

Thee ACTUAL reason WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this was written, could NOT YET SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things', 'objective Reality', or thee True and Full picture, is NOT because you can NOT but just because of the 'way' that you LOOK AT and SEE 'things' and because of the language 'you' use to express those VIEWS. That is all.

See, the language that 'you', human beings, used in the days of when this was written, OBVIOUSLY, does NOT paint a True NOR FULL picture of Life nor Reality, Itself. The True, Right, and Correct language, which does illustrate and paint that True and Right BIG and FULL picture, however, has been obtained. Just learning how to express that language to a species, which BELIEVES that they ALREADY KNOW BETTER, just takes some time.

Actually, expressing that language and SHOWING how it is ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct is NOT even an issue AT ALL, REALLY. Getting the elders of that species to become Truly OPEN and CURIOUS again, as they ALL were as young children, so that they COULD SEE thee ACTUAL Truth is what takes/took the longest.
What is the reality to you?
'That', what 'we', as One', want to create for "our" Self. When 'we' have created 'that', and thus are living in 'that', then that is the Reality. Until then all is just 'really happening', but not necessarily 'reality', itself.

What is the reality to you?
We are interacting minds.
Age
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:39 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:21 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:09 pm
What is the reality to you?
'That', what 'we', as One', want to create for "our" Self. When 'we' have created 'that', and thus are living in 'that', then that is the Reality. Until then all is just 'really happening', but not necessarily 'reality', itself.

What is the reality to you?
We are interacting minds.
So, when you say; "Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective reality."

Then, do you really mean; Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective we are interacting minds.

And, is what you said here the ONLY reality to you?
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bahman
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Re: Change cannot happen at now

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:52 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:39 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:21 pm
'That', what 'we', as One', want to create for "our" Self. When 'we' have created 'that', and thus are living in 'that', then that is the Reality. Until then all is just 'really happening', but not necessarily 'reality', itself.

What is the reality to you?
We are interacting minds.
So, when you say; "Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective reality."

Then, do you really mean; Language is circular but we comprehend it since its roots are in objective we are interacting minds.
Interacting minds follow from the fact that a mind is needed for a coherent change.
Age wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:21 pm And, is what you said here the ONLY reality to you?
There could be all sorts of other realities. The whole is boundless.
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