Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by attofishpi »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:17 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:50 am
Lacewing wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:44 am
Is it rather sad among the fervent theist types that they must bond their allegiances and disregard the true pursuit of wisdom... or do you not recognize that so much?

And if you do recognize it, what's the difference?
I've seen very little of it. What I present goes against most theist beliefs - so I am not big in their domain either - rarely do I see it.
Ah! But you see those fervent bonding atheist types with all of their allegiances and disregard for the true pursuit of wisdom.

So much more often, apparently, that you think it's "rather sad". Not only are you wise, but kind!! Excuse me while I dab the tears from my eyes.

Such a load of crap doesn't sound unbalanced or self-serving at all.
Lacey Lacey Lacey. - note I removed your emotis - they don't help your cause and should really be restricted to the lounge area..

Understand this. I DONT read theist posts - I skim them. I DONT read atheist to theist posts - the entire conversation is usually extremely boring and redundant.

So with regard to your statement, NO I dont see the fervent theist types bonding. I ONLY see the fervent atheists latching on to each other and condescending to me. I don't deal with them much.

Arising_uk != fervent atheist - uwot != fervent atheist....etc...some R reasonable to deal with.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

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Arising_uk wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:41 pm
attofishpi wrote:
Well of course. ...
Then why do you think your internal voice is you and this 'sages' voice isn't? As presumably neither sound like your actual voice.
This deserves an example. I'm in the office, tapping away at my computer. A voice states 'Christie'. I look up, and a girl walks past my desk that reminds me of this 'Christie' lass. That is 1 of MANY.

Arising_uk wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:41 pm
attofishpi wrote:Let me then clarify, you do understand that you also hear voices in you head that are not your own internal 'voice'?
Only when I dream.
Incorrect. When you go to the shops etc... you are hearing voices in your head that are not your own internal voice!
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Arising_uk »

attofishpiThis deserves an example. I'm in the office, tapping away at my computer. A voice states 'Christie'. I look up, and a girl walks past my desk that reminds me of this 'Christie' lass. That is 1 of [u wrote:MANY[/u].
An example of what? For me it's just an example of peripheral vision and subconscious processes.
Incorrect. When you go to the shops etc... you are hearing voices in your head that are not your own internal voice!
Well for sure but for those voices I can attribute an external source that I can see.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

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Arising_uk wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:40 pm
attofishpi wrote:This deserves an example. I'm in the office, tapping away at my computer. A voice states 'Christie'. I look up, and a girl walks past my desk that reminds me of this 'Christie' lass. That is 1 of MANY.
An example of what? For me it's just an example of peripheral vision and subconscious processes.
Oh dear. A brain fart then!

I'm not going to push on with examples from the past 23 years, I'm pretty much done with providing this level of detail of my experiences, especially to atheists.
This is not entirely related, but just thought you might cast your supreme logic to it. I used to work supporting peoples internet services. I was in 'hell', people in the office were not having normal conversations - as in, if I tuned into them, it was bollocks related to the fact that yet again I had crossed the line. When I told 'them' (the God system) to fuck off (in my head) someone yelled out across the office 'FUCK OFF!!' - this crap went on for about 3 months

In the evening after work, I lay on my couch attempting to have a nap and all of a sudden the word 'CONFESS' flashed across my retina in neon.
The next day at work hell was ongoing, I thought to myself - I suppose I should go to church and confess. The next customer that gave me his username, the username was: MAD_IF_YOU_DONT. - not yer typical username.
Later in the day, while I was still enduring the kunt side of God a customer gave me their username: HOWS_ELI. The interesting thing here is that at this point in time, I was writing the section of my cyberpunk novel Alpha Two, where a guy called Elias (his brother called him Eli) was being tortured by extortionists in the virtual world of the neural-net (he had been kidnapped and forced in and out of the neural-net - he had no idea when he was in the real world or the virtual)

Arising_uk wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:40 pm
attofishpi wrote:Incorrect. When you go to the shops etc... you are hearing voices in your head that are not your own internal voice!
Well for sure but for those voices I can attribute an external source that I can see.
So the only difference we have is that you can see the source of the voice.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Arising_uk »

attofishpi wrote:Oh dear. A brain fart then!
Not really, just one of the amazing abilities of the CNS.
I'm not going to push on with examples from the past 23 years, I'm pretty much done with providing this level of detail of my experiences, especially to atheists.
This is not entirely related, but just thought you might cast your supreme logic to it. I used to work supporting peoples internet services. I was in 'hell', people in the office were not having normal conversations - as in, if I tuned into them, it was bollocks related to the fact that yet again I had crossed the line. When I told 'them' (the God system) to fuck off (in my head) someone yelled out across the office 'FUCK OFF!!' - this crap went on for about 3 months

In the evening after work, I lay on my couch attempting to have a nap and all of a sudden the word 'CONFESS' flashed across my retina in neon.
The next day at work hell was ongoing, I thought to myself - I suppose I should go to church and confess. The next customer that gave me his username, the username was: MAD_IF_YOU_DONT. - not yer typical username.
Later in the day, while I was still enduring the kunt side of God a customer gave me their username: HOWS_ELI. The interesting thing here is that at this point in time, I was writing the section of my cyberpunk novel Alpha Two, where a guy called Elias (his brother called him Eli) was being tortured by extortionists in the virtual world of the neural-net (he had been kidnapped and forced in and out of the neural-net - he had no idea when he was in the real world or the virtual)...
Again, you or your subconscious is noticing and making patterns. Tell you what, make a log of all the times when these things don't happen when you are chatting to your 'God' and then do a comparison.
So the only difference we have is that you can see the source of the voice.
Not really, the major difference is that I can confirm with others the external source. So if you can find someone who is also having chats with this 'God' or 'sage' and that they are saying the same thing at the same time to the both of you then you might well be on to something.
Last edited by Arising_uk on Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

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lol
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:56 pm I DONT read atheist to theist posts - the entire conversation is usually extremely boring and redundant.
As are theist to atheist posts. Just wondering why you keep representing atheists vs. theists in a lop-sided fashion?
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:56 pm I ONLY see the fervent atheists latching on to each other and condescending to me.
Are they REALLY latching on to each other and disregarding a true pursuit of wisdom (as you said before), or is it that they agree with each other but disagree with you? Do you (similar to Nick) consider yourself an authority on the true pursuit of wisdom -- and what the paths and methods need to look like for that?
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:02 pm I'm in the office, tapping away at my computer. A voice states 'Christie'. I look up, and a girl walks past my desk that reminds me of this 'Christie' lass. That is 1 of MANY.
So, I can relate to this. I frequently receive insights and directions and "otherwise unknown awareness" from seemingly out of nowhere, and it has come to feel completely natural and "right here" all the time, even if obscured by noise at times and even if passed-over for the entertaining action on the Earth stage. Sometimes when I'm completely stumped or worn out, I've asked for even more significant clarity or answers, and they come immediately. Things that I wouldn't have known or thought of! You and I may attribute such things to different sources/factors, but we both experience it. So what might be the implications of that? I'd like to hear your perspective since we both have experienced it.

For me, it points to there being many paths and methods of "cosmic/universal network awareness", all naturally accessible to those who feel inclined to tap into it. So, any arguments on this forum that insist that spirituality and consciousness and wisdom and truth can only look a certain way, would be in error, yes? Do you agree? This is why I question such claims...because I have such experiences, that many theists don't even seem tapped into. So who are they to tell me what I should experience and how to get there?
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Skepdick »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:20 am As are theist to atheist posts. Just wondering why you keep representing atheists vs. theists in a lop-sided fashion?
The only reason theists are crazier than atheists is because they've simmered in their 'crazy-broth' for longer.

They are the same kind of crazy.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:20 am Are they REALLY latching on to each other and disregarding a true pursuit of wisdom (as you said before), or is it that they agree with each other but disagree with you? Do you (similar to Nick) consider yourself an authority on the true pursuit of wisdom -- and what the paths and methods need to look like for that?
If all roads lead to Rome, it sounds like determinism to me. So it shouldn't matter which way you go, but apparently Atheists think the Theists' way is wrong.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:20 am So, any arguments on this forum that insist that spirituality and consciousness and wisdom and truth can only look a certain way, would be in error, yes?
Do you draw a distinction between positive and negative arguments? e.g arguments which claim that wisdom and truth can only look a certain way; versus arguments which claim that wisdom and truth can't possibly look THAT particular way?

Atheism's argument against theism is essentially the latter.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Lacewing »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:07 am The only reason theists are crazier than atheists is because they've simmered in their 'crazy-broth' for longer.

They are the same kind of crazy.
I don't know about that. I think we're all kinda crazy but I don't think it's necessarily the same kind of crazy. There are lots of contributing factors and varied intensities and manifestations.
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:07 am If all roads lead to Rome, it sounds like determinism to me. So it shouldn't matter which way you go, but apparently Atheists think the Theists' way is wrong.
Well, (from my perspective) most theist stories/beliefs don't seem very logical or realistic, and it's strange that most theists identify so much that is "NOT-OF-GOD". But people do have a lot of odd practices and beliefs in life, all around the world and throughout history. Strange ideas, rituals, patterns, sects, wars, etc. Such things offer value for a lot of people, just as people who don't believe in such things find a lot of value NOT believing in it. So what's right or wrong about either? Kinda depends on results, I guess -- such as who people are as a result, and what they do with that.

All kinds of paths can be used as methods for attaining greater awareness and self-mastery. The stories around each path are to support that path. Some stories may seem more absurd than others. Depends on your perspective and investment, I guess.
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:07 am
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:20 am So, any arguments on this forum that insist that spirituality and consciousness and wisdom and truth can only look a certain way, would be in error, yes?
Do you draw a distinction between positive and negative arguments? e.g arguments which claim that wisdom and truth can only look a certain way; versus arguments which claim that wisdom and truth can't possibly look THAT particular way?
Yes... well, sort of... not quite the way you phrased it.

I think the universe shows that all kinds of views are possible, and lots of things work. Seems to me, a universe of such diversity doesn't seem likely to have static rigidity and limitation except that which is created by humans. Rigidity and limitation enable people to control and define life (and others) in a way that suits them. Is that wrong or foolish? I guess it depends on your own experience.

My current/evolving understanding/experience works for me after growing up in the church, continually surrounded by religious teachings. I respect people to have whatever beliefs are helpful to them. At the same time, when anyone makes skewed and inaccurate claims on this forum (or anywhere else), it's fair game to challenge that to learn and see what's behind it.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Skepdick »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:07 am The only reason theists are crazier than atheists is because they've simmered in their 'crazy-broth' for longer.

They are the same kind of crazy.
I don't know about that. I think we're all kinda crazy but I don't think it's necessarily the same kind of crazy. There are lots of contributing factors and varied intensities and manifestations.
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:07 am If all roads lead to Rome, it sounds like determinism to me. So it shouldn't matter which way you go, but apparently Atheists think the Theists' way is wrong.
Well, (from my perspective) most theist stories/beliefs don't seem very logical or realistic, and it's strange that most theists identify so much that is "NOT-OF-GOD". But people do have a lot of odd practices and beliefs in life, all around the world and throughout history. Strange ideas, rituals, patterns, sects, wars, etc. Such things offer value for a lot of people, just as people who don't believe in such things find a lot of value NOT believing in it. So what's right or wrong about either? Kinda depends on results, I guess -- such as who people are as a result, and what they do with that.

All kinds of paths can be used as methods for attaining greater awareness and self-mastery. The stories around each path are to support that path. Some stories may seem more absurd than others. Depends on your perspective and investment, I guess.
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:07 am
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:20 am So, any arguments on this forum that insist that spirituality and consciousness and wisdom and truth can only look a certain way, would be in error, yes?
Do you draw a distinction between positive and negative arguments? e.g arguments which claim that wisdom and truth can only look a certain way; versus arguments which claim that wisdom and truth can't possibly look THAT particular way?
Yes... well, sort of... not quite the way you phrased it.

I think the universe shows that all kinds of views are possible, and lots of things work. Seems to me, a universe of such diversity doesn't seem likely to have static rigidity and limitation except that which is created by humans. Rigidity and limitation enable people to control and define life (and others) in a way that suits them. Is that wrong or foolish? I guess it depends on your own experience.

My current/evolving understanding/experience works for me after growing up in the church, continually surrounded by religious teachings. I respect people to have whatever beliefs are helpful to them. At the same time, when anyone makes skewed and inaccurate claims on this forum (or anywhere else), it's fair game to challenge that to learn and see what's behind it.
In the broadest of strokes, I think I agree with you but I think I have the perfect question to ask you.

If 'all sorts of things work' do you then think that wisdom should be logical?

Logic is created by humans and is exceptionally rigid - it is a limit that we impose on ourselves, not a limit the world imposes on us.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

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Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:20 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:56 pm I DONT read atheist to theist posts - the entire conversation is usually extremely boring and redundant.
As are theist to atheist posts. Just wondering why you keep representing atheists vs. theists in a lop-sided fashion?
Sorry, what caused your mind to consider I presented a lop-sided view? Try to understand - around these parts we attempt to deal in logic.

atheist to theist? ..woops...
theist to atheist? ..woops...

So sorry for being lop-sided...even though i did state in CONVERSATION. -

You have proved to me too many times that: U R just attempting to score points LETS FACE IT. U R NOT HERE 4 A RATIONAL DEBATE.

Sorry Lacey, i've said it B4 and will again in the nicest possible way...1. U don't do logic. 2. U R mmm. 3. I am not going to engage with U in this thread U waste my time, experience, logic, indeed existence.

PS the only question in my post was rhetorical - don't answer it.
PPS good luck wanting to hang out with the cool kids (of atheism) - yet being spiritually IN TUNE...that's a thing called theism :mrgreen: ..and another example of irrationality on your part.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Lacewing »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:26 am If 'all sorts of things work' do you then think that wisdom should be logical?

Logic is created by humans and is exceptionally rigid - it is a limit that we impose on ourselves, not a limit the world imposes on us.
I think the concept of wisdom (as with all human thinking) is created by humans...based on what we believe and what we think we know and whatever logic we use, etc.

I don't agree that logic has to be rigid...it can flex with new information.

Do you think that wisdom is a state beyond human interference?
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Skepdick »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:11 pm I think the concept of wisdom (as with all human thinking) is created by humans...based on what we believe and what we think we know and whatever logic we use, etc.
I am afraid I don't have anything more than "wisdom means many things to many people".

For all the people who pursue it, I think they all end up at different destinations.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:11 pm I don't agree that logic has to be rigid...it can flex with new information.
No, over time logic gets pretty rigid. As your web of beliefs grows wider updating all of it as new information arrives becomes more and more expensive.

Here's an 8 minute video that covers this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFv5DvrLDCg

Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:11 pm Do you think that wisdom is a state beyond human interference?
I think my grandmother is exceptionally wise and she doesn't know the first thing about logic.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:11 pm
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:20 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:56 pm I DONT read atheist to theist posts - the entire conversation is usually extremely boring and redundant.
As are theist to atheist posts. Just wondering why you keep representing atheists vs. theists in a lop-sided fashion?
Sorry, what caused your mind to consider I presented a lop-sided view? Try to understand - around these parts we attempt to deal in logic.
For someone as yourself who dissects and plays with words and phrasing, you should know how revealing they can be...and that you are not immune from being revealed by your own. They can reveal your skewed thinking...leanings...limits, etc.
attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:11 pmYou have proved to me too many times that: U R just attempting to score points LETS FACE IT. U R NOT HERE 4 A RATIONAL DEBATE.
That's not at all true... so clearly you have created this "proof" for yourself... and it serves you.

There are no points here. We call into question what other people say when is seems skewed or untrue. Evidently when people disagree with you, you think they're ganging up or not pursuing wisdom (as you see it). Again, your conclusions serve as your "proof".
attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:11 pmSorry Lacey, i've said it B4 and will again in the nicest possible way...1. U don't do logic. 2. U R mmm. 3. I am not going to engage with U in this thread U waste my time, experience, logic, indeed existence.
You clearly are not here to be challenged at all! And apparently your "logic" is only programmed to protect/serve yourself and what you want to believe.
attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:11 pmbeing spiritually IN TUNE...that's a thing called theism :mrgreen:
It's not logical or wise to think it's that narrow.
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Re: Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

Post by attofishpi »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:35 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:11 pmbeing spiritually IN TUNE...that's a thing called theism :mrgreen:
It's not logical or wise to think it's that narrow.
Ok. So is Pantheism or Panentheism too narrow?
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