Point Zero Tunneling and "Time" Mining

[Lacewing]

I agree with everything you said, except...

I don't agree that logic has to be rigid...it can flex with new information.

No, over time logic gets pretty rigid. As your web of beliefs grows wider updating all of it as new information arrives becomes more and more expensive.

Logic CAN be rigid or not... like anything. You're talking as if there's more of a certainty of it being a certain way. I don't think anything we think or believe or do can ONLY be a certain way, nor that it has to be a certain way. It is typical for people to want to define everything in certain terms and then claim it true, but... the variations on that are countless.

[attofishpi]

being spiritually IN TUNE...that's a thing called theism

It's not logical or wise to think it's that narrow.

Ok. So is Pantheism or Panentheism too narrow?

[Lacewing]

being spiritually IN TUNE...that's a thing called theism

It's not logical or wise to think it's that narrow.

Ok. So is Pantheism or Panentheism too narrow?

Are you wanting to identify a belief that is the right/best definition of being spiritually in tune?

I don't think it's logical or wise to think that spirituality is as narrow as any particular human concept/notion of it.

Such ideas seem created for supporting and promoting specific human beliefs, while actually everything that exists could be naturally spiritual from complete connectivity. Vast (and perhaps impersonal) variations of it may be difficult for humans to wrap their heads around and control. But it's only humans who think it is (and must be) somehow personal.

[attofishpi]

It's not logical or wise to think it's that narrow.

Ok. So is Pantheism or Panentheism too narrow?

Are you wanting to identify a belief that is the right/best definition of being spiritually in tune?

I don't think it's logical or wise to think that spirituality is as narrow as any particular human concept/notion of it.

Such ideas seem created for supporting and promoting specific human beliefs, while actually everything that exists could be naturally spiritual from complete connectivity. Vast (and perhaps impersonal) variations of it may be difficult for humans to wrap their heads around and control. But it's only humans who think it is (and must be) somehow personal.

Well then, good luck with getting answers, indeed wisdom, from spiritual atheism. (woteva that is!)

[Arising_uk]

lol

That it then?

[attofishpi]

lol

That it then?

I am still surprised by your faith in atheism and lack of faith in me.

[Arising_uk]

I am still surprised by your faith in atheism and lack of faith in me.

No idea what faith has to do with atheism? Nor what faith I should have in you? As I believe you hear voices in your head and find patterns in the world that make sense of them to you. I just don't subscribe to your explanations for them.

[attofishpi]

I am still surprised by your faith in atheism and lack of faith in me.

No idea what faith has to do with atheism?

A belief in anything is a faith.

Nor what faith I should have in you?

Really? Even after I cut you down to the binary conclusion which you refused to answer in a discussion about the reason we would evolve into a simulation, where entropy has reached a critical level. Yep, I wished I had thread recorded that one, go on, tell me you don't remember yet again.

The only answer you were left with was a positive YES, that we would evolve into a simulation, 'God' would be the AI construct behind what we perceive as reality.
Keep up with your foolish belief in atheism though - well done.

As I believe you hear voices in your head and find patterns in the world that make sense of them to you. I just don't subscribe to your explanations for them.

We all hear voices in our head, that is where we understand consciousness to be. If the voices were irrational jiberish, then I'd agree that my brain is farting at me.

In internet support you deal with a lot of usernames, certainly not ones constructed as sentences.
Strange ultimately you are such a fool.

[Lacewing]

Well then, good luck with getting answers, indeed wisdom, from spiritual atheism. (woteva that is!)

From my perspective, it doesn't have anything to do with theism or atheism. It's just natural. Why would I need luck? I already get answers naturally (as I said), don't you? You just, perhaps, attribute it to something that I don't. That's your story...not mine.

If you really want to pursue wisdom rather than ego gratification, why wouldn't you pursue possibilities beyond your story? Or consider that other people are able to do so?

[attofishpi]

Well then, good luck with getting answers, indeed wisdom, from spiritual atheism. (woteva that is!)

From my perspective, it doesn't have anything to do with theism or atheism. It's just natural. Why would I need luck? I already get answers naturally (as I said), don't you? You just, perhaps, attribute it to something that I don't. That's your story...not mine.

If you really want to pursue wisdom rather than ego gratification, why wouldn't you pursue possibilities beyond your story? Or consider that other people are able to do so?

Good luck with that. Because you are ignoring ALL theism gained from the God system of ALL cultures. The ultimate one is the one where the most endearing of human virtues was shown - love - and you even have ignored that one - the one the God system had you born into.

Get reborn into atheism then, it's what you believed in that ultimately counts. A rather foolish pursuit.

[Lacewing]

Good luck with that. Because you are ignoring ALL theism gained from the God system of ALL cultures. The ultimate one is the one where the most endearing of human virtues was shown - love - and you even have ignored that one - the one the God system had you born into.

What is it exactly that you think I'm ignoring and lacking simply because I do not use the label of theist? I appreciate all kinds of teaching/awareness/wisdom from many paths, including theism -- I just don't subscribe to ideas about gods. My mother, who was a hardcore Christian, told me that I was more spiritual than she was! Many times I've been so full of love and joy for all of life, that I felt I would burst (just felt it again yesterday) -- and the rest of the time, it's a more subtle version of that. I'm not trying or seeking...it's just there and it has always been there. Everyone who has known me, describes me as spiritual and loving (even my ex-partners). I, too, have felt that I came to this Earth on purpose. I, too, receive direction and answers and, at times, sight beyond my own. And I live in gratitude every day. So, what is it exactly, that you think I'm so spiritually deficient in?

Get reborn into atheism then, it's what you believed in that ultimately counts. A rather foolish pursuit.

You're the one being foolish, atto. You seem locked into some battle between theism and atheism, as if they mean squat beyond the minds of men. Why isn't everything spiritual in your world? It is in mine. And why does anyone need to be "reborn"? Just another idea for a story. We are born just fine the first time. We are spiritual beings having a physical experience.

[Sculptor]

I don't object or affirm anything. Remember arising uk's continuous "why don't you post recent sources saying particles are 99.999% empty....oh wait you can't..." debacle...and how that ended (ie me posting multiple sources and him shutting up)?

No I am looking for a philosopher that either knows more and/or can actually hold himself up to questioning...the forum is getting stagnant.

I think you would first have to post something that was more than a bowl of word salad; something that actually meant something.
Stop gibbering.

And what, that time is a resource by nature is not a useful abstraction? Take the above metaphorically or literally and we are left with an abstraction about how important time is.

The mining of time and point zero energy can be taken as one and the same.

Gibber, gibber, gibber

[attofishpi]

..I'm a spiritual atheist...Gibber, gibber, gibber...

[Lacewing]

…

Ah... your dishonest childishness coming through again. If only you could demonstrate the wisdom you claim to have access to. But no, you only seem able to offer lame and evasive comments. So much grandiose pretense and imagination must be very entertaining for you!

[attofishpi]

For me it's the process of thinking logically and critically about things.

Is it a love of knowledge or a love of wisdom or both?

Why do those who've not bothered to read a jot of what Philosophy has said so love this phrase?

Atheist philosophy is a contradiction in terms.

If you wish to debate the above, parley here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=28153&p=438840#p438840