Do you experience time when there is no change?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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gaffo
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by gaffo »

Age wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:35 am
gaffo wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:40 am
Age wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:33 pm

So, to you, there is absolutely no distinction between 'time' and 'motion', correct?
yep.

Age wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:33 pm If yes, then, to you, are they the exact same thing?
I suspect they are the same, if you can provide a separation of the two, I'm all hears.

I do value learning, even it means i'm shown to be wrong.
There is no wrong, in things like these, because ALL things are relative to perspective.

To you, 'time' is just the exact same as 'motion', which is fine.

yep.

Age wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:33 pm To me, however, 'motion', without going into specific definition, is a part of change. Whereas, 'time' is just the name given to the measuring of motion/change.
ok,

welcome specifics though.
Age wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:33 pm To me, I have not observed nor experienced an actual thing as 'time', so that is why I refer it to the measuring only.
ok , welcome clarification..[/quote]

kindly clarify the clarification.
lol
Age
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by Age »

gaffo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:40 am
Age wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:35 am
gaffo wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:40 am

yep.




I suspect they are the same, if you can provide a separation of the two, I'm all hears.

I do value learning, even it means i'm shown to be wrong.
There is no wrong, in things like these, because ALL things are relative to perspective.

To you, 'time' is just the exact same as 'motion', which is fine.

yep.
So the word 'time' or 'motion' is completely redundant, to you, correct?

gaffo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:40 am
Age wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:33 pm To me, however, 'motion', without going into specific definition, is a part of change. Whereas, 'time' is just the name given to the measuring of motion/change.
ok,

welcome specifics though.
The action or process of moving or being moved.

This action/process causes change.
gaffo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:40 am
Age wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:33 pm To me, I have not observed nor experienced an actual thing as 'time', so that is why I refer it to the measuring only.
ok , welcome clarification..

kindly clarify the clarification.
lol
I have observed and experienced the very natural occurrence of movement, motion, and change. But I have NOT seen nor experienced any thing such as this 'time' thing, which 'you', human beings, talk about as being an actual real thing. Since no one has yet been able to explain what this 'time' thing is supposed to be, and considering that no matter where I am observing from there is no relative "time" difference to any one "else", then that is why I say 'time' is just the word, label, or name given to the measurement between points.

It is a lot harder to clarify some thing, which I do NOT observe NOR experience other than just the behavior of measuring, then it is to clarify what is observed and/or experienced. Would you like to clarify what 'time' is exactly, which you observe and/or experience?

If you like to clarify that 'time' is nothing but 'change', then the question 'Do you experience time when there is no change?' could also be asked in three other ways;
1. Do you experience time when there is no time? Or,
2. Do you experience change when there is no change?
3. Do you experience change when there is no time?

All completely meaningless questions.

If, however, you would like to clarify that 'time' is some thing else, then I would love to hear it.
roydop
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by roydop »

Time is the separation of two events, not locations.

Thought is the mechanism through which the appearance of separately existing events arises.

Pure witnessing, without conceptualization, does not give rise to time.
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Sculptor
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:19 pm Sculptor believes that there is no experience of time when there is no change. If it is so then why waiting is so bothersome? Obviously, there should be no waiting if there is no passage of psychological time.
Rubbish.
What I said is that there is no state of "nothing happening". Change is constant. THere is no state of "no change".
You really need to read more carefully. With a complete misunderstanding and misrepresentation like this, it is no wonder that your posts seem confused.
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Cerveny
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by Cerveny »

The things are simper: At every moment the new Planck’s time layer/sediment is glued to the History. From unordered Future. The History is thus a growing crystal (due to causality), where elementary particles are certain structural defects. The definitive fixation of the Past is completed by quantum interactions (“measurements?"), by rather random selection of admissible states, in the moment of "Now"...
In this context, I have to regret that the term “collapse” of a wave function is totally incorrect, it is on the contrary a final “settlement” or definitive “selection” of a (specific) wave function (mode/configuration) pinning to the History … as a result of quantum wave...
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Cerveny
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by Cerveny »

Cerveny wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:01 pm The things are simper: At every moment the new Planck’s time layer/sediment is glued to the History. From unordered Future. The History is thus a growing crystal (due to causality), where elementary particles are certain structural defects...
The speed of light is related to the rate of growth of history ... nothing can overtake time
... BTW, It is to say that God is building the History by 3D printer from Future, from Plato’s empire of ideas:)
gaffo
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by gaffo »

Cerveny wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:23 am
Cerveny wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:01 pm The things are simper: At every moment the new Planck’s time layer/sediment is glued to the History. From unordered Future. The History is thus a growing crystal (due to causality), where elementary particles are certain structural defects...
The speed of light is related to the rate of growth of history ...
physobabble noted

anything without mass - i,e, light travaling at light speed, is not subject to time.

Cerveny wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:23 am nothing can overtake time
yep, there is the arrow of time,

but maybe at.inside of the EH of HB's it might be possible to act in the inverse of that arrow of time.
gaffo
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by gaffo »

Age wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:04 am
gaffo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:40 am
Age wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:35 am

There is no wrong, in things like these, because ALL things are relative to perspective.

To you, 'time' is just the exact same as 'motion', which is fine.

yep.
So the word 'time' or 'motion' is completely redundant, to you, correct?


correct.
Age wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:04 am I have observed and experienced the very natural occurrence of movement, motion, and change. But I have NOT seen nor experienced any thing such as this 'time' thing, which 'you', human beings, talk about as being an actual real thing.
well since you are a being beyond human, i see no need to converse with you. being more than me.

you have all the answers conserning at least the nature of time, if not all answer to all things outside of the nature of time.
Age
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by Age »

gaffo wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:15 am
Age wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:04 am
gaffo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:40 am


yep.
So the word 'time' or 'motion' is completely redundant, to you, correct?


correct.
Okay that is fine.
gaffo wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:15 am
Age wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:04 am I have observed and experienced the very natural occurrence of movement, motion, and change. But I have NOT seen nor experienced any thing such as this 'time' thing, which 'you', human beings, talk about as being an actual real thing.
well since you are a being beyond human, i see no need to converse with you. being more than me.
Why did you assume such a ridiculous thing as 'I' am beyond 'you' and jump to such an absurd conclusion that 'I' am more than 'you'?

These are obviously WRONG, from my perspective, so why do you see this as being the case here?
gaffo wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:15 am you have all the answers conserning at least the nature of time, if not all answer to all things outside of the nature of time.
If you say so, then it must be true correct? But I doubt it very much.
popeye1945
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by popeye1945 »

Reminds me of a true story about a group of miners trapped by a cave-in. They were down there for a very long time before being rescued. During that time there was only one man with a watch, as the time dragged on, he was asked repeatedly how long had it been; and each time he lied to the rest of the men. Upon rescue, the only man that did not survive, was the man with the watch.
commonsense
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by commonsense »

popeye1945 wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 10:12 pm Reminds me of a true story about a group of miners trapped by a cave-in. They were down there for a very long time before being rescued. During that time there was only one man with a watch, as the time dragged on, he was asked repeatedly how long had it been; and each time he lied to the rest of the men. Upon rescue, the only man that did not survive, was the man with the watch.
I suspect that something ironic is afoot here, but must confess that I am missing the point.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:19 pm Sculptor believes that there is no experience of time when there is no change. If it is so then why waiting is so bothersome? Obviously, there should be no waiting if there is no passage of psychological time.
First of all, there is always change. Any human is filled with desire, for example. So, waiting is not no change, it is an accumulation of not getting where one wants to be. And often where we wait, it's not pleasant to be there. That's why they put TV in checkout lines to fool the organism that soemthing is happening.

Some deep meditators who have cut their own limbic systems out of themselves and are so deep in meditation and could care less about themselves may not experience time. And you don't experience time after you shoot yourself in the head. I mean, at least not before coursing through the bardos.

We aren't objects. We're always doing things and always wanting and reacting to things. So, there is always change.
Flannel Jesus
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by Flannel Jesus »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:52 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:19 pm Sculptor believes that there is no experience of time when there is no change. If it is so then why waiting is so bothersome? Obviously, there should be no waiting if there is no passage of psychological time.
First of all, there is always change. Any human is filled with desire, for example. So, waiting is not no change, it is an accumulation of not getting where one wants to be.
Bingo, weird question from bahman. There is not "no change" while waiting. Every piece of your being is vibrating every moment of existence. If there was literally no change then you wouldn't be able to have a thought, since the process of thinking requires movement and change.
commonsense
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by commonsense »

IF there were no change, a human would not be able to perceive time. IF there were no change, a priori there would be no time.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Do you experience time when there is no change?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 3:02 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:52 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:19 pm Sculptor believes that there is no experience of time when there is no change. If it is so then why waiting is so bothersome? Obviously, there should be no waiting if there is no passage of psychological time.
First of all, there is always change. Any human is filled with desire, for example. So, waiting is not no change, it is an accumulation of not getting where one wants to be.
Bingo, weird question from bahman. There is not "no change" while waiting. Every piece of your being is vibrating every moment of existence. If there was literally no change then you wouldn't be able to have a thought, since the process of thinking requires movement and change.
This is part of my problem with popeye's 'humans only react'. We not only have momentum/goals and came out of the womb running (man, we choose faces again and again to focus on), but we have multiple momentums. And when these get blocked, which is happening during waiting, this leads to effects that change over time.
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