bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:40 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm
Time is required for change.
WHY?
Because two states of affair related to a change cannot lay on one point and because any change has a duration.
What does 'two states of affair' actually mean?
What 'affair' are you talking about?
Until it is explained HOW there can be more than the one 'state', which is constantly changing, then what I observe is one state in one constant flux. I have yet to see any separation other than through a concept of defined differences.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 pmAge wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:40 pm
What is 'time' exactly that there could NOT be change without this thing that you call "time" but have yet to explain what 'it' IS exactly?
I explained what time is.
Time is an entity that allows change to occur.
This does NOT explain what 'time' is.
I have also asked you what is that 'entity', which you call 'time'. You have yet to do this.
Saying, "time is an entity that allows change to occur", is just like saying, "God is an entity that creates every thing". BOTH say NOTHING at all really. Unless what the 'entity' actually IS, is defined AND explained, then "others" really have NO idea of what is being talked about.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 pmAre you asking what time is made of?
Explaining that would help your position tremendously, but what I was asking is what is 'time'? You say, "time is an entity", so what I then asked before is, 'what is that 'entity', exactly?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 pmAge wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:40 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm
I have an argument for that.
When are we going to see it?
Ok, here is the argument: Consider a change in a system, A to B, A and B are two states of affair. A and B cannot coexist therefore they should lay on different points, points belong to a variable.
Okay, but you have to remember that A and B are NOT two separate things, although 'you', human beings, may see them as different things AND call them different things. A and B are NOT essentially different and separate but rather just A transforming or changing into B. There is only One state, which is changing. The two "different points", which are just points belonging to a variable, are just human being made up "points", laying on a human being made up "variable".
There should be also a duration to reach from A to B otherwise change never take place.
I agree there would be a duration to get from A to B. This is how A changed into B.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 pmWe call this variable as time.
Which is EXACTLY what I am saying, which you are 'trying to' dispute. But, your argument could be helping me more than you.
That 'variable', which you are just labeling as 'time', is just a 'MEASURED' variable, which is what I say 'time' is.
'time' just being the label or the name given to the behavior of measuring between two or more perceived and recognized as different points.
If you want to keep insisting that 'time' is some thing, or some entity, that MUST exist otherwise change could NOT take place, then you will have to explain AND define what 'time', the entity, IS exactly.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 pmAge wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:40 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm
Therefore time is different from change.
This is your argument here:
P1. Time is required for change.
P2. I have an argument for that.
C. Therefore, time is different from change.
No this is my argument:
1) Time is required for change (I have an argument for that)
2) Two things which one is needed for another one are different
3) Therefore, time is different from change
But this says NOTHING at all really.
If 'time' is REQUIRED for change, then what is this THING, you call 'time'? And, what is STOPPING 'change' if this 'time' THING did NOT exist? Or, HOW exactly does this 'time' THING make 'change' happen?
What does "Two things which one is needed for another one are different" actually mean and is actually referring to? For example, what example do you have of 'two things'? How is one needed for "another one", in actual REAL terms and NOT just in human being made up language, which provides definitions and which is how human beings differentiate the One thing into many?
You say, "time is different from change". How so?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 pmAge wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:40 pm
Just to make is CLEAR this says and explains ABSOLUTELY NOTHING at all.
What is 'time', which 'change' NEEDS to exist?
What is your so called "argument"?
If 'time' is different from 'change', then how EXACTLY?
Answer the clarifying questions to PROVE what you are saying is even slightly true, let alone actually true.
Change is something, namely one state of affair goes to another state of affair, that happens in the stuff we experience.
Using words like "one state" to "another state", does not really explain any thing. Adding words like "affair" and "stuff" only adds more confusion to this.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 pmLike moving a ball on pool table. Time is required for this motion.
For a ball to MOVE, on any table, an ACTION is REQUIRED. Do I NEED to explain what an 'action' IS?
You say 'time' is REQUIRED to MOVE a ball, on a pool table. Now you NEED to explain what 'time' IS.