How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:10 pm

bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:03 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:22 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:43 pm

I need to make this shorter and simpler if possible.
Time is the relation of parts.
I don't think so.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:22 pm
One part moves through another part.

The spin of electrons, as moving, is given direction by the fact the atom is also moving.

The electron/atom is in one position, then another position then another position.

Each position is a replication of the electron/atom into a new state. One position to many.

Each new position is a projection away from the old, thus is directional.

Time as the relation of parts, with one part changing into multiple parts is represent by the electron/atom replicating from one position to another...one position to many, with each new position directed away from the old.
You are describing motion in here.
Time and motion are inseperable.

Time is a relation of parts. The movement of one hand to another on a clock, or the back and forth rhythmic movement of a pendulum on a clock is one example.

Cesium, used in atomic clocks, has a frequency of over 9 billion hz (cycles per second). These cycles per second observe movement.

Time is the relation parts, how many times a phenomena repeats within a given context, with this context existing as a relative set of parts to something else.

Even subjectively, time changes according to reference points. If you watch a boxer on television his movements seem fast as you compare them to the surrounding environment. However from the position of the boxer blocking the punches they seem slower as he is using the movements of the boxers bodies to see how these punches will be thrown ahead of time so they appear slower.

The reference point of measurement determines time.

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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:23 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:10 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:03 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:22 pm

Time is the relation of parts.
I don't think so.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:22 pm
One part moves through another part.

The spin of electrons, as moving, is given direction by the fact the atom is also moving.

The electron/atom is in one position, then another position then another position.

Each position is a replication of the electron/atom into a new state. One position to many.

Each new position is a projection away from the old, thus is directional.

Time as the relation of parts, with one part changing into multiple parts is represent by the electron/atom replicating from one position to another...one position to many, with each new position directed away from the old.
You are describing motion in here.
Time and motion are inseperable.

Time is a relation of parts. The movement of one hand to another on a clock, or the back and forth rhythmic movement of a pendulum on a clock is one example.

Cesium, used in atomic clocks, has a frequency of over 9 billion hz (cycles per second). These cycles per second observe movement.

Time is the relation parts, how many times a phenomena repeats within a given context, with this context existing as a relative set of parts to something else.

Even subjectively, time changes according to reference points. If you watch a boxer on television his movements seem fast as you compare them to the surrounding environment. However from the position of the boxer blocking the punches they seem slower as he is using the movements of the boxers bodies to see how these punches will be thrown ahead of time so they appear slower.

The reference point of measurement determines time.
I have an argument for time being an entity which allows to change happens. Therefore time and change are different.

commonsense
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by commonsense » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:45 pm

bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:23 pm
I have an argument for time being an entity which allows to change happens. Therefore time and change are different.
They’re different but not separate. Time itself changes, so change is a part of time and time is a part of change.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:01 pm

bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:23 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:10 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:03 pm

I don't think so.


You are describing motion in here.
Time and motion are inseperable.

Time is a relation of parts. The movement of one hand to another on a clock, or the back and forth rhythmic movement of a pendulum on a clock is one example.

Cesium, used in atomic clocks, has a frequency of over 9 billion hz (cycles per second). These cycles per second observe movement.

Time is the relation parts, how many times a phenomena repeats within a given context, with this context existing as a relative set of parts to something else.

Even subjectively, time changes according to reference points. If you watch a boxer on television his movements seem fast as you compare them to the surrounding environment. However from the position of the boxer blocking the punches they seem slower as he is using the movements of the boxers bodies to see how these punches will be thrown ahead of time so they appear slower.

The reference point of measurement determines time.
I have an argument for time being an entity which allows to change happens. Therefore time and change are different.
It becomes a language game then, how to appropriately define one phenomenon so that the definition of the phenomenon can interlock with other defintions.

To reconcile these views, yours and mine, we are left with time allowing for change to happen, but this nature of time as the cause of change in itself changes through it's own nature.

So time allows for change, but in doing so it also changes.

It would be linked saying the empty portion of a wheel allows the wheel to spin, but this empty portion in allowing the wheel to spin manifests through other empty portions as well (the wheel moving from point A to point B through the emptiness of the road.) Thus one empty state manifests through another empty state.

Time as allowing for change, in itself is change.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:03 pm

commonsense wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:45 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:23 pm
I have an argument for time being an entity which allows to change happens. Therefore time and change are different.
They’re different but not separate. Time itself changes, so change is a part of time and time is a part of change.
And we end up with repitition through cycling: Time-->Change-->Time-->Change


It becomes a relation of particulate phenomenon, in this case concepts as the particulate "facts".

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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:40 pm

commonsense wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:45 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:23 pm
I have an argument for time being an entity which allows to change happens. Therefore time and change are different.
They’re different but not separate. Time itself changes, so change is a part of time and time is a part of change.
They are not separate in the sense that both change.

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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:46 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:01 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:23 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:10 pm

Time and motion are inseperable.

Time is a relation of parts. The movement of one hand to another on a clock, or the back and forth rhythmic movement of a pendulum on a clock is one example.

Cesium, used in atomic clocks, has a frequency of over 9 billion hz (cycles per second). These cycles per second observe movement.

Time is the relation parts, how many times a phenomena repeats within a given context, with this context existing as a relative set of parts to something else.

Even subjectively, time changes according to reference points. If you watch a boxer on television his movements seem fast as you compare them to the surrounding environment. However from the position of the boxer blocking the punches they seem slower as he is using the movements of the boxers bodies to see how these punches will be thrown ahead of time so they appear slower.

The reference point of measurement determines time.
I have an argument for time being an entity which allows to change happens. Therefore time and change are different.
It becomes a language game then, how to appropriately define one phenomenon so that the definition of the phenomenon can interlock with other defintions.

To reconcile these views, yours and mine, we are left with time allowing for change to happen, but this nature of time as the cause of change in itself changes through it's own nature.
Well, I was thinking that you need time to allow time changes. This seems at first to be regress but the regress can be resolved by only two times each time allows change in another one. So things change and two times change too.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:01 pm
So time allows for change, but in doing so it also changes.

It would be linked saying the empty portion of a wheel allows the wheel to spin, but this empty portion in allowing the wheel to spin manifests through other empty portions as well (the wheel moving from point A to point B through the emptiness of the road.) Thus one empty state manifests through another empty state.

Time as allowing for change, in itself is change.
No. You have physical change too when stuff moves for example. Time also changes.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:48 pm

bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:46 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:01 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:23 pm

I have an argument for time being an entity which allows to change happens. Therefore time and change are different.
It becomes a language game then, how to appropriately define one phenomenon so that the definition of the phenomenon can interlock with other defintions.

To reconcile these views, yours and mine, we are left with time allowing for change to happen, but this nature of time as the cause of change in itself changes through it's own nature.
Well, I was thinking that you need time to allow time changes. This seems at first to be regress but the regress can be resolved by only two times each time allows change in another one. So things change and two times change too.

Regress or progress are relative. Either way it is a recursive continuum, time through time through time.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:01 pm
So time allows for change, but in doing so it also changes.

It would be linked saying the empty portion of a wheel allows the wheel to spin, but this empty portion in allowing the wheel to spin manifests through other empty portions as well (the wheel moving from point A to point B through the emptiness of the road.) Thus one empty state manifests through another empty state.

Time as allowing for change, in itself is change.
No. You have physical change too when stuff moves for example. Time also changes.
Time is change as change changes.

commonsense
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by commonsense » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:03 pm

Timely time is negative time, according to the rule of double positives.

There is no time in the past, only memories.

There is no time in the future, only hopes, guesses and expectations.

Time is only now. It does not move forward or backward.

What is negative time? How does time exist in the negative? How is negative time measured? Some people speak of a good time to do something—is negative time good for not doing things? How does negative time affect the longevity of things? What happens if we speak of time times time, for example, if we say that the train is on time multiple times per day? Can negative time undo something that we remember happening in the past? Can there be negative time outs in basketball games? If a runner runs his fastest time, does he finish the race before it started? Can anytime be negative time? What if Springtime turned negative—will that mean it will snow in Summertime? Does negative time mean that the Earth’s rotation or its movement around the sun will be reversed? Isn’t it about time, or about negative time, to answer questions like these? Take your negative sweet time to think about it.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:54 pm

bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
I see time as merely change. That we only exist on the leading edge of change, does not negate the truth of our past gradual changes, it has been written, if no where else in our own minds and history books. Change only happens now. Time is an arbitrary measurement of the sequence of change from the beginning to now. The future is simply the belief that change shall continue, but there are far too many actors that cause change for it to be known as real. The direction, if you will, is defined by the memory of past changes relative to now. I believe that Kant was right about time in that, 'it's not an event or a thing and therefore cannot be measured or travelled in and of itself.' That it's just a method for humans to keep track of the sequence of change, in an attempt to believe we have control of future changes, to diminish uncertainty, because we need to feel in control so as to eliminate, as much as possible, the fear of the unknown.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:54 am

Time is simply the measurement of change or motion between states
A state is simply a point of existence which moves seamlessly from the present to the past almost immediately
And so while the state of now is eternal it is also collectively composed of these virtually instantaneous points

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:37 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:54 am
Time is simply the measurement of change or motion between states
A state is simply a point of existence which moves seamlessly from the present to the past almost immediately
And so while the state of now is eternal it is also collectively composed of these virtually instantaneous points
Thanks for your version.
Motion is change, the change of relative position. I merely reduced it to it's most common denominator, change.
Humans with such a short lifespan like to believe in the eternal, and I guess relatively there kind of is, but there is no evidence that proves anything is eternal, by definition. It's just a limited human concept with no necessary means of proof. Can you say big bang?

Eternal
adjective
1) without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2) perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3) enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4) Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:11 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:54 am
Time is simply the measurement of change or motion between states
A state is simply a point of existence which moves seamlessly from the present to the past almost immediately
And so while the state of now is eternal it is also collectively composed of these virtually instantaneous points
And what is motion but multiple states?

If I see change, I see one image, then another image. One image Inverts to many.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by attofishpi » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:17 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:37 am
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:54 am
Time is simply the measurement of change or motion between states
A state is simply a point of existence which moves seamlessly from the present to the past almost immediately
And so while the state of now is eternal it is also collectively composed of these virtually instantaneous points
Thanks for your version.
Motion is change, the change of relative position. I merely reduced it to it's most common denominator, change.
Humans with such a short lifespan like to believe in the eternal, and I guess relatively there kind of is, but there is no evidence that proves anything is eternal, by definition. It's just a limited human concept with no necessary means of proof. Can you say big bang?
Hello Spheres ..welcome back. :mrgreen:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:37 am
Eternal
adjective
1) without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.
Because humans cannot conceive of eternal - does not negate its plausibility - in fact, since if things exist NOW, then it will always draw us mere humans back to 'how can anything ever exist' or 'not exist'?
Since 'things' do exist, then it - the universe - must be eternal.
Thus the 3 laws of thermodynamics.
Even though perceivable reality can no longer exist, temporarily, eventually a perceivable reality will return (absent of us).

Put another way... The universe has formed to an extent that consciousness has arisen to now reflect upon its own existence. The universe will probably return to a state where it is impossible for conscious awareness to exist, roll the dice of thermodynamics enough times, and eventually you return to a reality with conscious observers - in fact - those observers may eventually manipulate matter\energy to the point where not only is the universe realised as eternal, but the 'souls' of conscious observers are also ...who nose - but yes - to that degree I doubt it. I truly don't believe souls are immortal to THAT scale.

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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:54 pm

commonsense wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:03 pm
Timely time is negative time, according to the rule of double positives.
What do you mean with this statement? What are negative time and timely time?
commonsense wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:03 pm
There is no time in the past, only memories.
True.
commonsense wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:03 pm
There is no time in the future, only hopes, guesses and expectations.
True.
commonsense wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:03 pm
Time is only now. It does not move forward or backward.
Time changes but it doesn't move since it has no spaciality. Time occurs at now which is infinitesimal. Infinitesimal has a direction. Time, therefore, is continuous and has direction.
commonsense wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:03 pm
What is negative time? How does time exist in the negative? How is negative time measured? Some people speak of a good time to do something—is negative time good for not doing things? How does negative time affect the longevity of things? What happens if we speak of time times time, for example, if we say that the train is on time multiple times per day? Can negative time undo something that we remember happening in the past? Can there be negative time outs in basketball games? If a runner runs his fastest time, does he finish the race before it started? Can anytime be negative time? What if Springtime turned negative—will that mean it will snow in Summertime? Does negative time mean that the Earth’s rotation or its movement around the sun will be reversed? Isn’t it about time, or about negative time, to answer questions like these? Take your negative sweet time to think about it.
How could you deduce something about negative time, your first statement, not knowing what is negative time?

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