How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

UniversalAlien wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:17 am
bahman wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:19 pm I am not saying that time is two times. Instead, I am claiming that there are at least two times each in a world.
Can you elaborate on this? - What do you mean by 'two times each in a world.' ?
That is how I see things: Time is a substance. Think of two times that move away from each other and consider that you are traveling on one of them. If you go back in time you reach the beginning when two times collapse and cancel each other. The moment of the beginning was the point that there was nothing, therefore. The moment that not one but at least two worlds popped up after the beginning, matter and antimatter being the material in these two different worlds as we need that they cancel each other too. You have two times so you can define a direction by two times too.
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

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Walker wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:52 am
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
Now is where time does not exist.
To me now is when that time exists by definition.
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:13 pm Time doesn't actually have a "direction," that's just a metaphorical way of thinking about it.
There is a direction when you have got two times that moving away from each other.
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:13 pm It doesn't make sense to say that change has a "direction" really. It's just change, however things change. If something changes "back to how it was," that's still just change (and it's not literally identical when it changes back; it's just a change that resembles how something was).

"Now" is just the changes that are occurring in a particular reference frame, and that reference frame includes different "scopes" or "scales"--a la degrees of detail and/or broadness of frame, with respect to the changes that are happening. So the changes happening, as opposed to changes that happened already, from the reference frame of something like an electron will be different than the changes that are happening from the reference from of consciousness.
Change has a direction. Now is not changes.
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Sculptor
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

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bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
You can see a train on a rail, and the motion is obvious. Now you see it now you don't.

But we are all on the train, it is moving but we are moving with it, and so have no impression of motion. Such is the case with TIME>
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:01 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:13 pm Time doesn't actually have a "direction," that's just a metaphorical way of thinking about it.
There is a direction when you have got two times that moving away from each other.
Times don't "move away from each other." It's just that changes can happen at different relative rates in different reference frames.
Change has a direction.
No it doesn't.
Now is not changes.
Yes it is. Time is just change, period.
Last edited by Terrapin Station on Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sculptor
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time.
You might want to think about this.
This statement indicates to me how you think about things. You are thinking backwards.
It is not true to say that the arrow of time tells us there is a direction to time.

Our understanding of time is the reason we call it an arrow of time.
When you understand this difference you might be better equipped to ask your question.
commonsense
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:43 pm
UniversalAlien wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:17 am
bahman wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:19 pm I am not saying that time is two times. Instead, I am claiming that there are at least two times each in a world.
Can you elaborate on this? - What do you mean by 'two times each in a world.' ?
That is how I see things: Time is a substance. Think of two times that move away from each other and consider that you are traveling on one of them. If you go back in time you reach the beginning when two times collapse and cancel each other. The moment of the beginning was the point that there was nothing, therefore. The moment that not one but at least two worlds popped up after the beginning, matter and antimatter being the material in these two different worlds as we need that they cancel each other too. You have two times so you can define a direction by two times too.
bahman, if you were to keep your claim to yourself, I would only say, “Whatever floats your boat or gets you through the day could be okay for you alone.”

But time is not a substance; it is a concept in the minds of humans. This invalidates the whole of your thoughts on time here.
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
You can see a train on a rail, and the motion is obvious.
Ok, so?
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm Now you see it now you don't.
What do you mean?
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm But we are all on the train, it is moving but we are moving with it, and so have no impression of motion. Such is the case with TIME>
What do you mean?
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:41 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:01 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:13 pm Time doesn't actually have a "direction," that's just a metaphorical way of thinking about it.
There is a direction when you have got two times that moving away from each other.
Times don't "move away from each other." It's just that changes can happen at different relative rates in different reference frames.
I said you can define direction if you have two times that move away from each other.
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:41 pm
Change has a direction.
No it doesn't.
No.
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:41 pm
Now is not changes.
Yes it is. Time is just change, period.
Now changes but now is not changes.
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:41 am
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time.
You might want to think about this.
This statement indicates to me how you think about things. You are thinking backwards.
It is not true to say that the arrow of time tells us there is a direction to time.

Our understanding of time is the reason we call it an arrow of time.
When you understand this difference you might be better equipped to ask your question.
Arrow has a direction.
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:49 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:43 pm
UniversalAlien wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:17 am

Can you elaborate on this? - What do you mean by 'two times each in a world.' ?
That is how I see things: Time is a substance. Think of two times that move away from each other and consider that you are traveling on one of them. If you go back in time you reach the beginning when two times collapse and cancel each other. The moment of the beginning was the point that there was nothing, therefore. The moment that not one but at least two worlds popped up after the beginning, matter and antimatter being the material in these two different worlds as we need that they cancel each other too. You have two times so you can define a direction by two times too.
bahman, if you were to keep your claim to yourself, I would only say, “Whatever floats your boat or gets you through the day could be okay for you alone.”

But time is not a substance; it is a concept in the minds of humans. This invalidates the whole of your thoughts on time here.
Time bend and can store information within in form of the gravitational wave.
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Sculptor
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 7:38 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
You can see a train on a rail, and the motion is obvious.
Ok, so?
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm Now you see it now you don't.
What do you mean?
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm But we are all on the train, it is moving but we are moving with it, and so have no impression of motion. Such is the case with TIME>
What do you mean?
Try and think
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Sculptor
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:02 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:41 am
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time.
You might want to think about this.
This statement indicates to me how you think about things. You are thinking backwards.
It is not true to say that the arrow of time tells us there is a direction to time.

Our understanding of time is the reason we call it an arrow of time.
When you understand this difference you might be better equipped to ask your question.
Arrow has a direction.
Not necessarily.
But worst still not relevant, since you can't understand what I am talking about.

Take this away with you. TIME IS NOT A ARROW.
An arrow is an arrow.
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:19 pm
bahman wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 7:38 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm
You can see a train on a rail, and the motion is obvious.
Ok, so?
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm Now you see it now you don't.
What do you mean?
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:44 pm But we are all on the train, it is moving but we are moving with it, and so have no impression of motion. Such is the case with TIME>
What do you mean?
Try and think
Well, if you don't want to try to explain then don't.
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:21 pm
bahman wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:02 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:41 am

You might want to think about this.
This statement indicates to me how you think about things. You are thinking backwards.
It is not true to say that the arrow of time tells us there is a direction to time.

Our understanding of time is the reason we call it an arrow of time.
When you understand this difference you might be better equipped to ask your question.
Arrow has a direction.
Not necessarily.
But worst still not relevant, since you can't understand what I am talking about.

Take this away with you. TIME IS NOT A ARROW.
An arrow is an arrow.
You don't understand what I am talking about.
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