How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

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bahman
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How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm

I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Impenitent » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:33 pm

it's a Swiss conspiracy... time always moves clockwise... even in Australia...

-Imp

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Cerveny » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:43 am

The Universe is composed from two phases. The first is 4D ordered, fixed, condensating, crystalizing, growing History and the second is unknown, not causal, mysterious world of ideas, the Future. The History crystalizes (does not expand) from the Future. 3D phase border, surface of History is living quantum “cambium”, the time of Now. The Time is local direction of History growth. Crystal layers are adding by Planck’s time steps. The Future “was” here even before beginning of History.
Last edited by Cerveny on Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Age » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:14 am

bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time.
Well you thought wrong.
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point?
'Time' does not have a direction, but because things only change in one direction you have a conception that 'time' does also. This is because you BELIEVE 'time' exists as a real thing.
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
Already explained, so there is NO problem at all.

Two points in the One event, which both exist, can define a direction the event is "going".

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:39 pm

Cerveny wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:43 am
The Universe is composed from two phases. The first is 4D ordered, fixed, condensating, crystalizing, growing History and the second is unknown, not causal, mysterious world of ideas, the Future. The History crystalizes (does not expand) from the Future. 3D phase border, surface of History is living quantum “cambium”, the time of Now. The Time is local direction of History growth. Crystal layers are adding by Planck’s time steps. The Future “was” here even before beginning of History.
I think the right answer is that the smallest interval of time is infinitesimal. It cannot be Planck’s time steps since otherwise, things appear discrete.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:41 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:14 am
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time.
Well you thought wrong.
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point?
'Time' does not have a direction, but because things only change in one direction you have a conception that 'time' does also. This is because you BELIEVE 'time' exists as a real thing.
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
Already explained, so there is NO problem at all.

Two points in the One event, which both exist, can define a direction the event is "going".
Time is real. The latest experiment on gravitational wave confirmed that.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Age » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:48 am

bahman wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:41 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:14 am
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time.
Well you thought wrong.
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point?
'Time' does not have a direction, but because things only change in one direction you have a conception that 'time' does also. This is because you BELIEVE 'time' exists as a real thing.
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
Already explained, so there is NO problem at all.

Two points in the One event, which both exist, can define a direction the event is "going".
Time is real. The latest experiment on gravitational wave confirmed that.
Okay, then that is settled, for you.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Cerveny » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:50 pm

bahman wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:39 pm
Cerveny wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:43 am
The Universe is composed from two phases. The first is 4D ordered, fixed, condensating, crystalizing, growing History and the second is unknown, not causal, mysterious world of ideas, the Future. The History crystalizes (does not expand) from the Future. 3D phase border, surface of History is living quantum “cambium”, the time of Now. The Time is local direction of History growth. Crystal layers are adding by Planck’s time steps. The Future “was” here even before beginning of History.
I think the right answer is that the smallest interval of time is infinitesimal. It cannot be Planck’s time steps since otherwise, things appear discrete.
The Time is merely a mediated, derived value; it is certain measure of the rate of evolution (speed of growth of the History, that is limited by ~c) If you continuously measure eg decay of a neutron, you will always get a neutron or a proton (+ ...) The time, providing more detail informaton of such transition/decay does not exist. This process somehow occurs during mentioned Planck’s interval. The time, following the discrete reality, is discrete too.
Last edited by Cerveny on Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Cerveny » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:36 pm

Cerveny wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:50 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:39 pm
Cerveny wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:43 am
The Universe is composed from two phases. The first is 4D ordered, fixed, condensating, crystalizing, growing History and the second is unknown, not causal, mysterious world of ideas, the Future. The History crystalizes (does not expand) from the Future. 3D phase border, surface of History is living quantum “cambium”, the time of Now. The Time is local direction of History growth. Crystal layers are adding by Planck’s time steps. The Future “was” here even before beginning of History.
I think the right answer is that the smallest interval of time is infinitesimal. It cannot be Planck’s time steps since otherwise, things appear discrete.
The time is merely a mediated, derived value; it is certain measure of rate of evolution (speed of growth of the History, that is limited by ~c) If you continuously measure eg decay of a neutron, you will always get a neutron or a proton (+ ...) The time, providing more detail informaton of such transition/decay does not exist. This process somehow occurs during mentioned Planck’s interval. The time, following the discrete reality, is discrete too.
You can see it from another point of view: elementary particles (structural defects in regular structure of physical space) cannot move faster than c because there is not prepared (condensed) places where to go, yet. Nothing can overrun the Time (of history growth).
Last edited by Cerveny on Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Cerveny » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 am

Cerveny wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:43 am
The Universe is composed from two phases. The first is 4D ordered, fixed, condensating, crystalizing, growing History and the second is unknown, not causal, mysterious world of ideas, the Future. The History crystalizes (does not expand) from the Future. 3D phase border, surface of History is living quantum “cambium”, the time of Now. The Time is local direction of History growth. Crystal layers are adding by Planck’s time steps. The Future “was” here even before beginning of History.
Sorry, but I must yet add, regarding to present thread, that I am always amazed, how present physics works with the Future. Is it possible to seriously consider that endless future with all details was created in one point of their “BB” from nothing? Such unbelieve silly idea does not give to the world any sense:(

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Skepdick » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:26 am

Cerveny wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 am
Such unbelieve silly idea does not give to the world any sense:(
The dumbest idea of all is that the world owes you anything - like "making sense" to you. Yet some people insist on projecting their desires upon the world.
Cerveny wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 am
Is it possible to seriously consider that endless future with all details was created in one point of their “BB” from nothing?
Why "from nothing"? Some physicists lavish the idea that the Future after BB is infinite. As was the past before the BB. And least we get bogged down in definitions - what I mean by "infinity" is "a concept beyond human comprehension".

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Cerveny » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:09 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:26 am
Cerveny wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 am
Such unbelieve silly idea even does not give to the world any sense:(
The dumbest idea of all is that the world owes you anything - like "making sense" to you. Yet some people insist on projecting their desires upon the world.
Cerveny wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 am
Is it possible to seriously consider that endless future with all details was created in one point of their “BB” from nothing?
Why "from nothing"? Some physicists lavish the idea that the Future after BB is infinite. As was the past before the BB. And least we get bogged down in definitions - what I mean by "infinity" is "a concept beyond human comprehension".
Sorry, I dont want to argue, and I have another desires, but I personally strongly believe, perceive, feel and see that the world is rational and ultimate/limited in all measurable ways and that nothing real can be unlimited. Unlimited is only an Idea.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Skepdick » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Cerveny wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:09 pm
Sorry, I dont want to argue, and I have another desires, but I personally strongly believe, perceive, feel and see that the world is rational and ultimate/limited in all measurable ways and that nothing real can be unlimited. Unlimited is only an Idea.
I think what you are trying to say is that you strongly hope and desire that the universe is finite because your Human understanding/belief/perception/feelings/existence are finite. Once more (for emphasis): the universe doesn't owe you anything.

You don't know if 'unlimited' is only an idea. It could be fact.

If it is a fact and the universe is indeed unlimited/infinite, and you are in fact trying to understand it using your finite mind it's fair to say that your finite time is much better spent drinking beer.

Trying to understand infinity is a fool's errand.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:02 pm

bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm
I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
Time is strictly the relation of parts occurring through Recursion and isomorphism. A "part" or "particle" can be any localized part of a whole, the "micro" of a "macro" or strictly a "localization" within any "field".

The movement of a particle (or part of a reality) requires a variation.

The particle is in position A, with Position A being a context of "surroundings"...a framework so to speak.

The particle projects to position B, with Position B being a variation of the the context that defines the particle. Remember the particle exists precisely because of the context.

In one respect the context inverts into another context as a variation of the prior context. This occurs around the center point of the particle as an unchanging fixed entity when used as a fixed focal point.

This projection of the context to another context requires the center point (the particle) to be directed through itself amidst the change thus it repeats. This repetition is both linear and concentric (circular).

The particle projects linearly (such as a car moving from A to B) when observing it repeat new positions as new contexts. The car may exist at the beginning of the block, then it occurs in a new context of the middle of the block, then the end, a new block, etc. Each context exists in a succession, with this succession being a replication of the car as effectively a center point that exists "not in itself" (fundamentally empty) but through the contexts that occur.

The projection of the inherent center point (the car) allows for a fundamentally formless phenomena (as the car is formless without the context in which it exists) to take "form". This basic form is "directional" considering the car exists through its inherent movement where all form as fundamentally subject to change exists in accords to its directional nature, this directionality necessitates an inherent sense of unity as "projection" is one direction...thus "time" as the progression of a center point through various contexts is grounded in a basic 1 directional linear nature.


Dually this occurs with other phenomena as well, considering the car can be "parked" or some other "particle" may exist as the context of other particles. Using a skateboarder as an example; the skate boarder is progressing from one portion of the car (the beginning) to another portion (the end) with the skateboard eventually moving past the car to such a degree it fundamentally "disappears". So the skateboarder, as a "particle" or "center point" of a variety of contexts necessitates that this particle is simultaneously repeated through a variety of changing contexts.

So each particle as a progressive center point, repeating through different contexts observes a multilinear field of change considering each particle as progressing does so through the context surrounding it but this context occurs through the nature of these particles (each as respective center points when localized as a constant median inherent within change) following this same nature.

So each particle (part of reality, or "localization" of some piece of a whole/field/environment) effectively is a center point of its own field with this particle projecting through a constant repetition that is linear when observing the progressive change of the contexts. This is considering the position of one point in space differs relative to the original point, thus the point must exist in multiple states if the context is to change as multiple center points necessitate multiple fields. This multiplicity of center points allows for the field itself paradoxically and we are left with "isomorphism" between concepts of "center point" and "field" which loop back to having a temporal nature in themselves (or in other words, time is described through time).


Context is created through the "quantification" of a center point, or where one center point inverts to many center points. Quantification is finiteness. We see this with the car. One position of the car inverts to another position of the car, with each "car" existing in accords to a new context...the car thus exists through many "center" points and is projective by nature.

This repetition of the particle, necessitates the particle as cycling through itself through it always returning to "itself" under the variety of different contexts that variate around it. In these respects it is "concentric" as each context change requires a change in "all directions". We can observe this with the car driving down the road. Using the car as the center point a change in the front occurs, with different phenomenon appearing and disappearing...the same occurs in the relative opposite reverse direction or the rear of the car...the same occurs with left and right...and all the angles in between...change occurs concentrically in all directions simultaneously.

Look in any one direction specifically, say 17 degrees constantly as the car is moving (ie changing contexts), and focus directly at this 17 degree position...effectively you will observe "nothing" if you are able to focus on a strict enough point however you will observe a linear progression of new contexts as well (trees, buildings, air, etc.). Focusing on any angle of awareness from the center point of the moving car effectively observes linear change in all directions simultaneously. This linear change being nothing but a progressive change of one phenomena into another...one center point into another.

This this "progression" occurs in all directions at once, necessitating time has a circular or rather "concentric" property from any localized point.



The inverse dually occurs when we observe the context as a constant where the context is a set of limits which contain the variation of phenomena within them. Each context, thus acts as an inherent loop in which change occurs internally. The car as a context is composed of these changes, as well as the skateboarder.

The inherent nature of this context, as containing perpetual change within a given form with this given form existing as a center point in itself to other contexts necessitates an inherent nature of change or continual dynamics where being is movement.

The car exists a through a change of contexts, but this context is composed of changing phenomena (which are contexts), thus the car as a "form" or "localization" of reality is really a synthesis between internal and external changes or a synthesis between internal and external contexts as a context in itself.

Time is thus synthetic in nature as the convergence and divergence of contexts, considering each context is intrinsically empty of any inherent nature due to this change. Time is thus context, where the dynamic nature of the "context" necessitates "relation" while the "context" is fundamentally "form as a perpetual change". Context is thus form with these forms being grounded in basic spatial axioms that are universal and ever present and grounded in an inherent "formlessness" conducive to point space...considering we use a center point or "localization" of reality as a constant. Time as the synthesis (creation/destruction or convergence and divergence of contexts) of forms necessitates time fundamentally is the creation of space.

Linear and Circular Time are thus inverses of each other and not only occurs simultaneously but are one and the same as variations of a center point.

Time is thus an observing of "form" as existing through a continual change, with time occurring within and through all "phenomena" both abstract and physical considering these phenomena are forms. Even this sentence itself, observing the word "phenomena" variating into "form" observes an inherent replication of certain core meanings ("being", "structure", etc.) through a variety of forms.

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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Cerveny » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:13 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:07 pm
...
If it is a fact and the universe is indeed unlimited/infinite, and you are in fact trying to understand it using your finite mind it's fair to say that your finite time is much better spent drinking beer.
...
Cheers!;)
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