PTH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:13 pm
Age wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:26 pmIf 'we' want to discuss things here, especially on a philosophy forum, then, I think it better to speak the truth and the truth only, with no assuming at all going on. For example, is it a truth that "we" do not know if or how brains produce what you say here, or, is it a truth that "you" do not know?
Oh, I'll choose to be hung for a sheep and say "we" don't know.
Because if there is a Shaman sitting on top of a mountain somewhere who knows, but can't see the point in telling anyone, I don't think it need intrude on this discussion. I think we can achieve quite a lot of clarity without entertaining that kind of remote possibility.
So, you choose to make up an assumption, and then believe that is true, instead of just remaining open to what the actual truth is. This is fair enough. But do not expect to gain much more knowledge than what it is that you assume and believe is already true and right now.
PTH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:13 pmWhat I am reasonably clear on is that any time someone asserts they know how the brain works, you find they mean something like the existence of neural correlates of consciousness which don't really tell us how things like thoughts and consciousness come to pass.
Well what you are "reasonably clear on" is just plain wrong. Did you actually read what I wrote before? If you did, then you will see that I do not mean what you say here you will find.
But because of the way brains work, they will only see what they already believe is true and right. Because there are already beliefs tied up with that brain, you obviously did not see that what I wrote does not correspond with what you already believe is true and right. I do not mean that what you presume would happen. Therefore, what you said here is wrong.
PTH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:13 pmAge wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:26 pmFor the term 'mind' do you have some clear meaning and understanding and in some contexts?
While it certainly is possible for a discussion to have a problem arising from a word being used to mean two different things (which is actually what motivated me to post here), I don't think that arises in the use of the word 'mind' (to distinguish it from 'brain') in this context.
Okay, but do you have some clear meaning and understanding of what the definition for the word 'mind' is, which is what you very subteltly previously suggested is a helpful thing to provide?
By the way, I agree that the Mind is not the brain. To me, they are two completely different things, with two completely different jobs, and behave or work in two completely different ways. And, in order to uncover, work out, learn, and/or understand how they both actually work, then when looking at this subject there needs to be complete honesty and openness.
PTH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:13 pmThere could be value in examining the word 'mind' in some contexts. I don't think that value would be gotten where we are now.
So, to you, there could be some thing, but you appear to not want to do any thing to see if that some thing could actually be gotten, or not.
Just go along with and remain with whatever "value" that you have now.
PTH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:13 pmSkepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:05 pmWe want to be the masters of our destiny. Some times we get it right, but is it enough? *shrug*
Although we seem to get quite a lot right, and our environment seems to be fairly stable and predictable in many respects. We might not know the value of an ounce of gold next week. But we can be pretty sure that a table won't suddenly morph into an elephant.
To me, there is absolutely NO value in gold, other than what 'you' give it.
Relative to the value in clean water, gold is completely worthless to me.
I found that there is far more value in the knowledge and understanding of what IS actually True and Right, then there ever could be in all the money, and all the so called "precious" lumps of rock, on earth.