Can the universe think?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
philosopher
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Can the universe think?

Post by philosopher » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:48 am

The brain consists of neurons communicating with each other through electrical and chemical signals, creating consciousness and thoughts.
But we don't say "this particular neuron is what cause our consciousness". It is the total sum of all the parts, or put in other words:

Consciousness is the system of all the parts simulatnously.

What about the universe?

Given that it takes light a certain amount of time to reach various destinations, the universe wouldn't even get to the "huh?"-thought.

But since Quantum Entanglement is real, two particles can be linked infinitely far apart and affect each other in an instant.

But Entanglement cannot be used to send information faster than the speed of light. I suggest you all go read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem

But if we treat the entire universe as one system in and of itself, how can it be impossible for the universe to have various thoughts at the same time? Then it does not need to communicate information between the parts, the entire system of all the particles in the entire universe will be treated as one system, like the brain.

If all particles in the entire universe are somehow linked through Quantum Entanglement, how can we disprove the universe have thoughts?

User avatar
HexHammer
Posts: 3266
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by HexHammer » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:46 pm

I have the theory that neutron stars, magnetars and black holes are aware, since they can store information and spin so fast that they must generate some sort of computing field.

philosopher
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by philosopher » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:54 pm

HexHammer wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:46 pm
I have the theory
Be careful with that word. You certainly do not have a theory, you don't even have a hypothesis. You have an idea.

https://www.britannica.com/science/scientific-theory
https://www.britannica.com/science/scie ... hypothesis

User avatar
HexHammer
Posts: 3266
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by HexHammer » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:31 pm

philosopher wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:54 pm
Be careful with that word. You certainly do not have a theory, you don't even have a hypothesis. You have an idea.
No matter what you call it, it's still the same.

User avatar
doolhoofd
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:43 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by doolhoofd » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:05 pm

Check out my thread in the religion section, "the Sun is God."
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26686

"The sun? Conscious? Impossible... How?" 'In a way lower organisms like you have difficulty to grasp. One thought from the source takes longer than a human life. A conversation with other stars takes thousands of your years.' "All the stars are conscious?" A dry laughter resounded. 'Of course. They are the original inhabitants of the cosmos. Without them there would be no organic life, let alone organic consciousness.' - Elian Lazaro, Elysium

surreptitious57
Posts: 3517
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:35 pm

The Universe is an isolated system that functions according to the laws of classical and quantum physics
I would not say that it thinks like a biological organism does but I think any distinction is purely academic
The reason I say this is because functioning and thinking are simply different points on the same spectrum

User avatar
Cerveny
Posts: 574
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:35 pm
Location: Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by Cerveny » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:14 am

You should consider that the Future is thinking... it sends us the negenthopy, It send us the life / keeps the life...
I personaly believe tha the Future is (Plato’s) empire of ideas where God lives... sorry God, I am rather drunked today:)

User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 588
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by RCSaunders » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:17 am

philosopher wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:48 am
The brain consists of neurons communicating with each other through electrical and chemical signals, creating consciousness and thoughts.
How do you know this?

It is untrue. Nothing physical, "creates," consciousness.

User avatar
Noax
Posts: 670
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:25 am

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by Noax » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:27 pm

RCSaunders wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:17 am
It is untrue. Nothing physical, "creates," consciousness.
How do you know this? You commit the very same fallacy of which you are accusing others.
philosopher wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:48 am
The brain consists of neurons communicating with each other through electrical and chemical signals, creating consciousness and thoughts.
But we don't say "this particular neuron is what cause our consciousness". It is the total sum of all the parts, or put in other words:

Consciousness is the system of all the parts simulatnously.
So given this interpretation, if I add a part to the system, does the system still think? It is the brain that thinks or the person? If I put a rock in the hand of the person, can the person/rock system think, or is it just a system that contains something that thinks? I think the answer hinges on that distinction.

User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 588
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by RCSaunders » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:24 pm

Noax wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:27 pm
RCSaunders wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:17 am
It is untrue. Nothing physical, "creates," consciousness.
How do you know this?
I know it by understanding the nature of consciousness. Consciousness is an attribute of living organisms and can be described in terms of the attribute life, but cannot be described or explained in physical terms. If you are serious about the question, please see the article, "The Nature of Consciousness." It's my article; I'm not sending you off to some crackpot site.

Though consciousness is not itself caused by the physical, it is a perfectly natural attribute of the entities we call organisms just as all the physical attributes are. Consciousness does not exist, or even have a meaning independent of the organisms it is the consciousness of. There is nothing mystical about it.
philosopher wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:48 am
The brain consists of neurons communicating with each other through electrical and chemical signals, creating consciousness and thoughts.
But we don't say "this particular neuron is what cause our consciousness". It is the total sum of all the parts, or put in other words:

Consciousness is the system of all the parts simulatnously.

So given this interpretation, if I add a part to the system, does the system still think? It is the brain that thinks or the person? If I put a rock in the hand of the person, can the person/rock system think, or is it just a system that contains something that thinks? I think the answer hinges on that distinction.
You have made a point with which I partially agree. All the physical behavior of the neurological system never actually addresses consciousness itself. Consciousness would be impossible without it, because there must be something for consciousness to be conscious of, and the neurological system is what makes that something available to consciousness.

But the neurological system does not produce or give rise to consciousness, which is impossible. I think you have also lumped two different concepts together. The human mind that thinks is a unique form of consciousness, but there is certainly consciousness without thinking, unless none of the higher animals are conscious.

I do not think the nature of consciousness can be understood independently of the nature of life. If you are really interested in the nature of consciousness, my article, "The Nature of Life," is a prerequisite.

philosopher
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by philosopher » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:27 pm

Noax wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:27 pm
So given this interpretation, if I add a part to the system, does the system still think? It is the brain that thinks or the person? If I put a rock in the hand of the person, can the person/rock system think, or is it just a system that contains something that thinks? I think the answer hinges on that distinction.
In the brain, there are lots of parts that does not think. It's only there for some other reason, like the rock in the person's hands. The person still thinks no matter what.

But take out vital organs or even non-vital organs from a person's body and the person will think differently, perhaps even alter his/her personality. We know that the gut system affects the brain and vice versa.

Skepdick
Posts: 1706
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by Skepdick » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:11 pm

philosopher wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:27 pm
In the brain, there are lots of parts that does not think. It's only there for some other reason, like the rock in the person's hands. The person still thinks no matter what.
From the above it seems then that the sufficiency criterion for the claim "the universe thinks" is satisfied as long as it can be said that some part of the universe thinks. And it can be said that some parts of the universe thinks. Because brains think and brains are part of the universe.
philosopher wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:27 pm
But take out vital organs or even non-vital organs from a person's body and the person will think differently
Different thought is still thought. Like bad science is still science.

User avatar
Noax
Posts: 670
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:25 am

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by Noax » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:20 am

philosopher wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:27 pm
It's only there for some other reason, like the rock in the person's hands. The person still thinks no matter what.
I didn't see the question answered. Does the rock-person system (the system, not the person) think, or does that system only contain something that thinks?

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6904
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Can the universe think?

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:38 am

Can the universe think?

Answer is NO

There is no thought here/there.

There is here the appearance of thought, but thoughts are as empty as space itself, and even space is a thought.

The seen / known conceptual world of thought things is an apparition of the mind, the mind is also it's own thought, not here/there.

Every thing is here and not here simultaneously - never not here.

Everything (reality) and Nothing are the same one reality simultaneously.

_______

'' The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.''

F. Scott Fitzgerald

_________

Life functions all by itself automatically. It does not think.

Thought is a superposition upon what's already no thought thing.

No thought thing can be imagined - but a thought thing can be imagined...by no thought thing..



.

.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests