Bricks in The Universe's Wall

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Scott Mayers
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Bricks in The Universe's Wall

Post by Scott Mayers » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm

If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
Last edited by Scott Mayers on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Atla
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Re: The Universe's Wall

Post by Atla » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm
If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
That's as speculative as it gets.. I don't think that our kind of universe has an edge. But maybe other kinds are possible as well, with edges that reflect everything back? So for an instant you might be able to touch it.

Scott Mayers
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Re: The Universe's Wall

Post by Scott Mayers » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:04 pm

Atla wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 pm
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm
If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
That's as speculative as it gets.. I don't think that our kind of universe has an edge. But maybe other kinds are possible as well, with edges that reflect everything back? So for an instant you might be able to touch it.
But if you could 'touch' it, wouldn't you require sensing resistance? If so, it would be 'solid' as a wall and even if infinitesimally small, there would still be at least some distance greater than zero between you and something that the wall represents. So would this prove an 'edge' beyond or through it is or is not extant?

Atla
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Re: The Universe's Wall

Post by Atla » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:19 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:04 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 pm
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm
If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
That's as speculative as it gets.. I don't think that our kind of universe has an edge. But maybe other kinds are possible as well, with edges that reflect everything back? So for an instant you might be able to touch it.
But if you could 'touch' it, wouldn't you require sensing resistance? If so, it would be 'solid' as a wall and even if infinitesimally small, there would still be at least some distance greater than zero between you and something that the wall represents. So would this prove an 'edge' beyond or through it is or is not extant?
But no one can answer such questions? Maybe you could get infinitely close to it maybe not.. maybe you could sense the wall itself maybe not.. maybe the wall would have thickness maybe not.. maybe your molecules would simply be reflected back and you would only sense your hand being shoved back through itself, maybe not.. maybe this would prove an edge, maybe not..

Scott Mayers
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Re: The Universe's Wall

Post by Scott Mayers » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:47 pm

Atla wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:19 pm
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:04 pm

But if you could 'touch' it, wouldn't you require sensing resistance? If so, it would be 'solid' as a wall and even if infinitesimally small, there would still be at least some distance greater than zero between you and something that the wall represents. So would this prove an 'edge' beyond or through it is or is not extant?
But no one can answer such questions? Maybe you could get infinitely close to it maybe not.. maybe you could sense the wall itself maybe not.. maybe the wall would have thickness maybe not.. maybe your molecules would simply be reflected back and you would only sense your hand being shoved back through itself, maybe not.. maybe this would prove an edge, maybe not..
I'm asking for 'empirical' like answers that you can relate to locally, not necessarily weirdness external to the fact we could not actually do this.

If you could 'touch' it, by our local understanding of sense of touch, we treat this as empirical evidence of something matter-like; but if by touching it as 'proof' would qualify based on our sense of touch, then it would imply something as 'matter' like. But then this would act as a barrier between us and something at least infinitesimally thin. So we couldn't use this to assert we have an 'end'

Does this help?

And now think of the reflection, as a sense of sight. Can we use this independently to determine if that wall represents a real edge or not?

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bahman
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Re: Bricks in The Universe's Wall

Post by bahman » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:13 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm
If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
The universe is either close or open. In first case we cannot reach any end since going straight brings you to your first place. Space-time in this case is embedded inside a higher dimension space-time. Universe is unbound in the second case so it can expand freely. You cannot approach any end since there is no end.

Scott Mayers
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Re: Bricks in The Universe's Wall

Post by Scott Mayers » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:18 pm

bahman wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:13 pm
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm
If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
The universe is either close or open. In first case we cannot reach any end since going straight brings you to your first place. Space-time in this case is embedded inside a higher dimension space-time. Universe is unbound in the second case so it can expand freely. You cannot approach any end since there is no end.
You missed one: closed, open, or static! :wink:

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Cerveny
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Re: Bricks in The Universe's Wall

Post by Cerveny » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:35 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm
If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
The “edge”/surface of Universe is just Now. The (phase) border (between fixed History and unknown Future) of Universe is quantum World, that are permanently giving birth and fixing a new (Planck’s) time sediments/layers.

Scott Mayers
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Re: Bricks in The Universe's Wall

Post by Scott Mayers » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:03 am

We are getting a lot of agreement here. But I'm afraid of it getting buried to get a good enough consensus.

seeds
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Re: Bricks in The Universe's Wall

Post by seeds » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:10 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm
If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
Looking at this issue from the perspective of the alleged Big Bang, one can theoretically assume that the leading edge of the universe is a light barrier that encompasses and encapsulates the denser masses of the stars and planets (like the film of a vast bubble).

In which case, one would need to travel faster than light to reach (catch up to) the edge.

And once you reach that edge...

(assuming that you have become massless in order to achieve and surpass the speed of light)

...you yourself (or at least the fabric of your body) would thus become a part of the edge.

In other words, not only could you touch the edge, you would literally be the edge itself (though I’m not sure how the sense of touch would fit into this scenario).
_______

Age
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Re: The Universe's Wall

Post by Age » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:08 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:04 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 pm
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 pm
If you could somehow get to an “edge” of the Universe, if it could exist, would you be able to touch it?
That's as speculative as it gets.. I don't think that our kind of universe has an edge. But maybe other kinds are possible as well, with edges that reflect everything back? So for an instant you might be able to touch it.
But if you could 'touch' it, wouldn't you require sensing resistance? If so, it would be 'solid' as a wall and even if infinitesimally small, there would still be at least some distance greater than zero between you and something that the wall represents. So would this prove an 'edge' beyond or through it is or is not extant?
Even if there were a "wall" or "edge", then what is on the "other" side of it? There has to be some thing, so then we are back to infinite again. The 'Universe', by definition, has NO edge as It is infinite.

Atla
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Re: The Universe's Wall

Post by Atla » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:30 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:47 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:19 pm
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:04 pm

But if you could 'touch' it, wouldn't you require sensing resistance? If so, it would be 'solid' as a wall and even if infinitesimally small, there would still be at least some distance greater than zero between you and something that the wall represents. So would this prove an 'edge' beyond or through it is or is not extant?
But no one can answer such questions? Maybe you could get infinitely close to it maybe not.. maybe you could sense the wall itself maybe not.. maybe the wall would have thickness maybe not.. maybe your molecules would simply be reflected back and you would only sense your hand being shoved back through itself, maybe not.. maybe this would prove an edge, maybe not..
I'm asking for 'empirical' like answers that you can relate to locally, not necessarily weirdness external to the fact we could not actually do this.

If you could 'touch' it, by our local understanding of sense of touch, we treat this as empirical evidence of something matter-like; but if by touching it as 'proof' would qualify based on our sense of touch, then it would imply something as 'matter' like. But then this would act as a barrier between us and something at least infinitesimally thin. So we couldn't use this to assert we have an 'end'

Does this help?

And now think of the reflection, as a sense of sight. Can we use this independently to determine if that wall represents a real edge or not?
What I can most relate to locally is the idea that our particular universe is finite but without an edge. So, no wall.

It may extend sideways without borders across an infinite multiverse though, there may be no wall there either but you might say that you are in a way "touching" inifinitely many universes even at this moment. It can't be sensed.

We know nothing about what such a wall would be like even if possible (which I kinda doubt), so everything is pure speculation there.

Scott Mayers
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Re: Bricks in The Universe's Wall

Post by Scott Mayers » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:55 pm

So you thus agree that you cannot empirically interpret walls via observation? ....but can logically deduce this as a fact?

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