Einstein on the train

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Age
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:15 am
Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:08 am
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:40 am
This is totally not the "actual truth" you moron. You can physically see "thoughts" on a brain scan.
If you say so, then it MUST be True, correct?

By the way, on a brain scan is the actual 'THOUGHT' there to be physically seen?

If no, then okay.
If yes, then can 'thoughts' actually be physically seen or is it some thing else that is seen, like for example just brain activity?

If thoughts, themselves, can actually be physically seen, then can 'what the actual thought IS' be read, understood, or known, just by physically looking?

If no, then okay.
If yes, then HOW?

Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:40 am You can also cut out a part of the brain and look at it (but then the person is already dead).
You can also cut out all of the brain and look at it, but what has any of this got to do with the actually ability or not to physically being able to see 'thoughts', themselves?

If you can physically see thoughts, like you are implying you can, then what does a 'THOUGHT' look like physically?

Also, it is possible to work on (in?) a brain on a living breathing human body, so the person is then NOT dead, so what do these 'thoughts' look like?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:40 am They will simply look very different because this time you're looking at them from the "outside", not "directly" seeing them from the inside.
How do 'thoughts', themselves, look very different from the "outside" compared to seeing them "directly" from the inside? What is the actual difference that you are talking about here?

Also, HOW is it possible to see "directly" from the inside from and through the physical eyes, which, obviously, LOOK OUTWARDS?

Are you able to explain this to this moron, or any one else here, actually?
In the last 100 years neuroscience, psychology has firmly established how subjective experiences correlate with brainscans. The exact process is unknown yet but will probably be figured out in the near future. Thoughts seem to have a lot to do with electromagnetism and although we can't literally see EM fields with our eyes (especially not the EM fields in a living human's head) but we can measure it more and more accurately anyway and then display it in some way.

There is still a long way to go but your schizophrenic delusion which you call the "actual truth" can with near 100% certainty be ruled out by now. There never was any hint of a physical-mental duality.
None of this is what I was talking about. This is just another example of what I explained in "logik's" reply, which is more or less ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, which are in the group of 'thoughts' can and do DISTORT, PREVENT, and STOP the actual and real Truth of things being SEEN and UNDERSTOOD, almost immediately.
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:15 amDo you get it now? I told you a 100 times you are simply insane.
Yes I have heard you say many times and I get it: I am simply insane.

There are 'you' happy now?

I have finally understood that it is I who IS INSANE. Now that that is sorted, what would you like me to do now?
Atla
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:29 am
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:15 am
Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:08 am

If you say so, then it MUST be True, correct?

By the way, on a brain scan is the actual 'THOUGHT' there to be physically seen?

If no, then okay.
If yes, then can 'thoughts' actually be physically seen or is it some thing else that is seen, like for example just brain activity?

If thoughts, themselves, can actually be physically seen, then can 'what the actual thought IS' be read, understood, or known, just by physically looking?

If no, then okay.
If yes, then HOW?




You can also cut out all of the brain and look at it, but what has any of this got to do with the actually ability or not to physically being able to see 'thoughts', themselves?

If you can physically see thoughts, like you are implying you can, then what does a 'THOUGHT' look like physically?

Also, it is possible to work on (in?) a brain on a living breathing human body, so the person is then NOT dead, so what do these 'thoughts' look like?



How do 'thoughts', themselves, look very different from the "outside" compared to seeing them "directly" from the inside? What is the actual difference that you are talking about here?

Also, HOW is it possible to see "directly" from the inside from and through the physical eyes, which, obviously, LOOK OUTWARDS?

Are you able to explain this to this moron, or any one else here, actually?
In the last 100 years neuroscience, psychology has firmly established how subjective experiences correlate with brainscans. The exact process is unknown yet but will probably be figured out in the near future. Thoughts seem to have a lot to do with electromagnetism and although we can't literally see EM fields with our eyes (especially not the EM fields in a living human's head) but we can measure it more and more accurately anyway and then display it in some way.

There is still a long way to go but your schizophrenic delusion which you call the "actual truth" can with near 100% certainty be ruled out by now. There never was any hint of a physical-mental duality.
None of this is what I was talking about. This is just another example of what I explained in "logik's" reply, which is more or less ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, which are in the group of 'thoughts' can and do DISTORT, PREVENT, and STOP the actual and real Truth of things being SEEN and UNDERSTOOD, almost immediately.
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:15 amDo you get it now? I told you a 100 times you are simply insane.
Yes I have heard you say many times and I get it: I am simply insane.

There are 'you' happy now?

I have finally understood that it is I who IS INSANE. Now that that is sorted, what would you like me to do now?
So since there is no such "mind's eye" you talk about, there is no such "actual and real Truth of things" either. The "mind's eye" simply means that we are one and the same with the world.
Yes I have heard you say many times and I get it: I am simply insane.

There are 'you' happy now?

I have finally understood that it is I who IS INSANE. Now that that is sorted, what would you like me to do now?
No, you haven't understood it at all.
Age
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age »

Scott Mayers wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:56 am
Age wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:36 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:19 pmI think you need to first look at definitions. You use the word, 'fact', as though this means 'matter-of-fact' or 'obvious'.
Did you really take a bit of time to absorb what I fed back to you? Or, have you just made an ASSUMPTION, and are sticking to that, INSTEAD OF just asking clarifying questions so that you would discover what the actual and real Truth or fact IS?

From what you have written so far it does not appear that you have really made the effort to absorb what the actual Truth IS. Or, maybe more correctly you have NOT spent enough time to obtain this.
You are repetitively saying nothing more than the same thing over and over again like a broken record. Any questions I have asked of you is redirected without actual answers but with a trivializing of the question or to be commanded as irrelevant to your interest as though that were sufficient. I would need actual background from you to determine how to continue trying to speak with you.

Tell me who you are. Are you female/male? What is your education? And how old are you?
The 'you' literally IS the invisible thoughts and emotions within a human body. So, the 'you' in this body is these thoughts (and emotions) that appear upon this screen. I do like to LOOK AT things objectively instead of subjectively, although the subjective perspective, unfortunately, comes to the forefront some times, by habit, and for ease for the readers to understand.

The 'you' in this body is NOT female nor male as female and male ONLY apply to and are in relation to the physical sexual organs of a body. This is NOT what 'i' am. This body went to what level of education would be called, in your language, I am unsure, but till the body was 16 years of age. What the i learned in those years of boredom were how to spell, read and write some, relatively speaking, very small or little words, oh and this i learned a bit of maths also, probably the english and maths that i learned would be comparable with say a 3rd grader. The i did not really learn much else at all. The age of the body now i like to leave a mystery because the ASSUMPTIONS made already, might become very useful later on when explaining HOW and WHY the human brain makes up ASSUMPTIONS when clearly there is absolutely NO idea what the actual and real Truth IS.
Scott Mayers wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:56 amI can't read any further. If you want respect, prove you are FACTUALLY human. Otherwise I'll NOT ASSUME you as anything as per your wise advice.
I do NOT want respect.

I do NOT need any thing.

ALL I WANT, however, is Honesty to start with, and then OPENNESS will naturally follow. I just want to get to the bottom of WHERE the ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS started from, which is what is distorting the Truth of things, that way I am learning better how to communicate 'that' what I want to communicate.

By the way, would you care to count the questions asked by you, and asked by me and, literally, recount who has redirected without answers the most?

Oh and further more the 'you' is NOT human at all. The 'you' is the invisible 'being' part in the label 'human being'. The human body is the visible 'human' part in the label 'human being.

The 'I' is another matter altogether.

Also, I think you will FIND it much better if you do NOT ASSUME any thing at all, and just accept that what is written as either being wise or WRONG advice, if that is what you like.

When I first joined this forum, under another label "ken", I did write some thing in 'introduce yourself'. I forgotten what I wrote there but you might find some thing useful in that if you care to look for it.

Until then if you want to "know" who 'i' am, from the human being perspective, well there are plenty of names that i have been called if you want to use them to influence how to write to me. Some of those names are; idiot, schizophrenic, simple, stupid, insane, and many more i am sure. "atla" comes across as to knowing the most about me who 'i' really am and having the most accurate diagnose and names for me, if you care to ask that one.
Age
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 am So since there is no such "mind's eye" you talk about, there is no such "actual and real Truth of things" either.
If this is what you BELIEVE, then it MUST be True, correct?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 amThe "mind's eye" simply means that we are one and the same with the world.
If you say so, then it MUST be True, correct?

Is this an actual and real Truth of things, or just a relative to you truth of how you see things, which OBVIOUSLY could be completely and utterly WRONG or partly wrong? Or, can what you say NOT be WRONG?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 am
Yes I have heard you say many times and I get it: I am simply insane.

There are 'you' happy now?

I have finally understood that it is I who IS INSANE. Now that that is sorted, what would you like me to do now?
No, you haven't understood it at all.
Okay, am I NOT insane?

Either you are saying; I am insane, or, you are saying; I am NOT insane. So, which one is it? Please help me to understand.
Atla
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:00 am
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 am So since there is no such "mind's eye" you talk about, there is no such "actual and real Truth of things" either.
If this is what you BELIEVE, then it MUST be True, correct?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 amThe "mind's eye" simply means that we are one and the same with the world.
If you say so, then it MUST be True, correct?

Is this an actual and real Truth of things, or just a relative to you truth of how you see things, which OBVIOUSLY could be completely and utterly WRONG or partly wrong? Or, can what you say NOT be WRONG?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 am
Yes I have heard you say many times and I get it: I am simply insane.

There are 'you' happy now?

I have finally understood that it is I who IS INSANE. Now that that is sorted, what would you like me to do now?
No, you haven't understood it at all.
Okay, am I NOT insane?

Either you are saying; I am insane, or, you are saying; I am NOT insane. So, which one is it? Please help me to understand.
Based on everything we know about the world, there is definitely no such mind's eye.

Plus we also know that schizophrenics often experience a strong presence in their mind. Be it a voice, a God, the Universe speaking to them or through them or whatever. It's because their mind gets fractured and one part of their mind percieves another part of their mind as being an "another" presence.

So your "actual and real Truth of things" can be ruled out with near 100% certainty.
Logik
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Logik »

Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:09 am Ever heard that there are NO actual problems in Life, and that ONLY human beings MAKE UP 'problems'?
Would you say it's the human mind or the human brain that makes up problems?
Age
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:22 pm
Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:09 am Ever heard that there are NO actual problems in Life, and that ONLY human beings MAKE UP 'problems'?
Would you say it's the human mind or the human brain that makes up problems?
WHY would ask me such a question when you ALREADY KNOW my VIEW on the Mind?
Age
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 am
Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:00 am
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 am So since there is no such "mind's eye" you talk about, there is no such "actual and real Truth of things" either.
If this is what you BELIEVE, then it MUST be True, correct?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 amThe "mind's eye" simply means that we are one and the same with the world.
If you say so, then it MUST be True, correct?

Is this an actual and real Truth of things, or just a relative to you truth of how you see things, which OBVIOUSLY could be completely and utterly WRONG or partly wrong? Or, can what you say NOT be WRONG?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:37 am No, you haven't understood it at all.
Okay, am I NOT insane?

Either you are saying; I am insane, or, you are saying; I am NOT insane. So, which one is it? Please help me to understand.
Based on everything we know about the world, there is definitely no such mind's eye.
Am I included in this "we"?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 amPlus we also know that schizophrenics often experience a strong presence in their mind. Be it a voice, a God, the Universe speaking to them or through them or whatever. It's because their mind gets fractured and one part of their mind percieves another part of their mind as being an "another" presence.
Does that REALLY happen that way?

Is that the same "we" also that KNOWS this?

And, what exactly is this 'mind' thing which you speak of here, and how exactly does it supposedly work?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 amSo your "actual and real Truth of things" can be ruled out with near 100% certainty.
Considering you were DEFINITE when you started writing but are now NOT so sure, what happened from when you started to now?
Atla
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:23 pm
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 am
Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:00 am

If this is what you BELIEVE, then it MUST be True, correct?



If you say so, then it MUST be True, correct?

Is this an actual and real Truth of things, or just a relative to you truth of how you see things, which OBVIOUSLY could be completely and utterly WRONG or partly wrong? Or, can what you say NOT be WRONG?



Okay, am I NOT insane?

Either you are saying; I am insane, or, you are saying; I am NOT insane. So, which one is it? Please help me to understand.
Based on everything we know about the world, there is definitely no such mind's eye.
Am I included in this "we"?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 amPlus we also know that schizophrenics often experience a strong presence in their mind. Be it a voice, a God, the Universe speaking to them or through them or whatever. It's because their mind gets fractured and one part of their mind percieves another part of their mind as being an "another" presence.
Does that REALLY happen that way?

Is that the same "we" also that KNOWS this?

And, what exactly is this 'mind' thing which you speak of here, and how exactly does it supposedly work?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 amSo your "actual and real Truth of things" can be ruled out with near 100% certainty.
Considering you were DEFINITE when you started writing but are now NOT so sure, what happened from when you started to now?
maybe come back in 20 years when you are capable of comprehending words like "we", "know", or that nothing is ever 100% definite
Age
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:59 am
Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:23 pm
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 am

Based on everything we know about the world, there is definitely no such mind's eye.
Am I included in this "we"?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 amPlus we also know that schizophrenics often experience a strong presence in their mind. Be it a voice, a God, the Universe speaking to them or through them or whatever. It's because their mind gets fractured and one part of their mind percieves another part of their mind as being an "another" presence.
Does that REALLY happen that way?

Is that the same "we" also that KNOWS this?

And, what exactly is this 'mind' thing which you speak of here, and how exactly does it supposedly work?
Atla wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 amSo your "actual and real Truth of things" can be ruled out with near 100% certainty.
Considering you were DEFINITE when you started writing but are now NOT so sure, what happened from when you started to now?
maybe come back in 20 years when you are capable of comprehending words like "we", "know", or that nothing is ever 100% definite
You are the ONE that stated "we" ARE DEFINITE about some thing. NOT me.

Also, in case you are yet unaware, some people use the"we" word in an ATTEMPT to TRY TO "justify" that their own BELIEFS are somehow correct. Just like what YOU just did.

Because of your total lack of ability to clarify my question the "we" in your statement could refer to you and your self ONLY. Considering your statement proposes 100% absolute DEFINITE certainty, then the chances that that "we" refers to any one else besides YOU only, is only getting slimmer all the time.
Atla
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:03 am
Atla wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:59 am
Age wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:23 pm

Am I included in this "we"?



Does that REALLY happen that way?

Is that the same "we" also that KNOWS this?

And, what exactly is this 'mind' thing which you speak of here, and how exactly does it supposedly work?



Considering you were DEFINITE when you started writing but are now NOT so sure, what happened from when you started to now?
maybe come back in 20 years when you are capable of comprehending words like "we", "know", or that nothing is ever 100% definite
You are the ONE that stated "we" ARE DEFINITE about some thing. NOT me.

Also, in case you are yet unaware, some people use the"we" word in an ATTEMPT to TRY TO "justify" that their own BELIEFS are somehow correct. Just like what YOU just did.

Because of your total lack of ability to clarify my question the "we" in your statement could refer to you and your self ONLY. Considering your statement proposes 100% absolute DEFINITE certainty, then the chances that that "we" refers to any one else besides YOU only, is only getting slimmer all the time.
YOU can't make sense of what people write even though it's pretty clear

If you want to work on yourself and try to fix your schizophrenic thought patterns, then my suggestion is to learn the cognitive restructuring techniques in this book and apply them https://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-New ... 0380810336 you seem to have all the time in the world anyway. It was mainly designed against depression but can be used for broken psychotic thought patterns as well. But a philosophy forum is not a free therapy session.
surreptitious57
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
The things that can be LOOKED AT and studied are:
Thoughts. They can be studied by LOOKING AT ones own self from a Truly Honest Open and Wanting to change perspective
This involves LOOKING AT ALL of the WRONG each one does as there is NO use Wanting to change the RIGHT each one does

Mind. This becomes KNOWN through the Wanting to change of ones own self which unintentionally involved the STUDYING
of ones self which an unintentional consequence of is the discovery/revealing of the answer to the question Who am I
These things are already being looked at and studied and extensively so through philosophy / psychology / neuro science
Why does wanting to change oneself involve unintentional studying ? Since would it not be more likely to be intentional ?
surreptitious57
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Are there thoughts within that body ?
Is there a Mind within that body ?

If yes to both of these then one can be FAIRLY certain that these things actually exist even though they can NOT be seen with the physical eyes
They can however be SEEN with and by the Minds EYE AND UNDERSTOOD and KNOWN by this Mind

If however the answer is no to either or both of these questions then maybe that you is NOT prepared to LOOK AT and STUDY these things
Brain activity can be detected under an MRI scanner so thoughts can be seen
But language is the product of thought so even without MRI evidence it is definitely certain that they exist not fairly certain
There is a mind within every functioning body because mind is a function of the brain but if there is also a Mind I cannot say
Age
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:12 am
Age wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:03 am
Atla wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:59 am
maybe come back in 20 years when you are capable of comprehending words like "we", "know", or that nothing is ever 100% definite
You are the ONE that stated "we" ARE DEFINITE about some thing. NOT me.

Also, in case you are yet unaware, some people use the"we" word in an ATTEMPT to TRY TO "justify" that their own BELIEFS are somehow correct. Just like what YOU just did.

Because of your total lack of ability to clarify my question the "we" in your statement could refer to you and your self ONLY. Considering your statement proposes 100% absolute DEFINITE certainty, then the chances that that "we" refers to any one else besides YOU only, is only getting slimmer all the time.
YOU can't make sense of what people write even though it's pretty clear

If you want to work on yourself and try to fix your schizophrenic thought patterns, then my suggestion is to learn the cognitive restructuring techniques in this book and apply them https://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-New ... 0380810336 you seem to have all the time in the world anyway. It was mainly designed against depression but can be used for broken psychotic thought patterns as well. But a philosophy forum is not a free therapy session.
Well you seem to like giving out free diagnoses with plenty of free advice.

But you rarely, if ever, respond to what I have ACTUALLY POINTED OUT and SHOWN. One example is in this very quote here: In just one post of yours you write that you/we are DEFINITE about some thing, but later on in the exact same post that nothing is ever 100% DEFINITE. So, if you just want to completely TRYING TO deflect away from THAT and just keep looking at ME, then feel FREE to keep going in that direction. Your actions, obviously, speak a lot CLEARER than your words do.
Age
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Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:20 am
Age wrote:
The things that can be LOOKED AT and studied are:
Thoughts. They can be studied by LOOKING AT ones own self from a Truly Honest Open and Wanting to change perspective
This involves LOOKING AT ALL of the WRONG each one does as there is NO use Wanting to change the RIGHT each one does

Mind. This becomes KNOWN through the Wanting to change of ones own self which unintentionally involved the STUDYING
of ones self which an unintentional consequence of is the discovery/revealing of the answer to the question Who am I
These things are already being looked at and studied and extensively so through philosophy / psychology / neuro science
Why does wanting to change oneself involve unintentional studying ? Since would it not be more likely to be intentional ?
No. Because the intention WAS to change, and NOT to actual study one's 'self'.
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