uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:46 pmuwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:49 amAs someone who is always banging on about openess and honesty, can you openly and honestly say you have read it and understood it?
YES.
Okie-dokie. So, in your own words, what do you understand by this?
You see the interpretations/s of facts, as stories, about what could be the case.
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:49 amThis book draws together some of the best stories to give a general idea of how scientists think the universe actually works. In a way, it’s like imagining that the reason why a particular law of nature works is because it is a duck. Bear in mind though, it could be a rabbit.
Age wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:46 pmCan you OPENLY and Honestly say that you have NOT let your ASSUMPTIONS and/or BELIEFS get in the way of the FACTS and the Truth?
There are no assumptions and/or beliefs involved in facts.[/quote]
OF COURSE there NO assumptions and/or beliefs involved in facts. To ASSUME otherwise would be just plain silly or stupid.
But I was talking about the ASSUMPTIONS and/or BELIEFS that you, yourself, have and hold onto.
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm For example, you don't have to assume and/or believe that heavy objects fall if you drop them.
Besides the fact that this is a VERY narrow view of what actually does happen, you are going down a WRONG and/or unnecessary path. That is; what you ASSUMED I was talking about is NOT what I was talking about.
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm You can perform the simple experiment of dropping a heavy object and seeing which way it moves.
Yes you can.
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm On Earth, this is invariably downwards.
In the Universe is there a "downwards"?
The actual and real Truth will NEVER being discovered with such a narrow and small perception of things.
Even on earth is there an actual "downwards", or just a relative "downwards" to the relatively very small and narrow thinking human being?
The actual and real Truth comes from a much larger scale than just that relatively small perspective of the observing human being.
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm It's a fact.
Are you absolutely sure?
Could a fact instead be; Objects with mass attracts objects with mass, if close enough?
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm The statement 'Heavy objects fall to Earth' is "the Truth".
Are you absolutely sure?
Could 'Heavy objects are attracted to the earth's mass' be MORE True?
"Fall" is relatively a very small and/or narrow view of things, to me.
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm It is only when you get into explaining why this should be so that you get into story-telling.
Do 'you'?
Why can you NOT just explain that objects with mass attract objects with mass. Is that NOT a fact?
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm Any story that satisfactorily accounts for the fact that heavy objects fall to Earth could be "the Truth".
Are you absolutely sure of this?
Some might instead and/or prefer to say; Any story that satisfactorily accounts for the fact that heavy objects are attracted to earth could be the Truth. That is because they do NOT see "falling" to earth is a fact.
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pm All competent scientists know this as well as you, but generally don't insist that they know which story is the "actual Truth". Without exception, people who claim to know 'the Truth' are bonkers.
Considering 'you' are the 'one' who just claimed to know 'the Truth' do you want to stick by this statement, even with the "without exception" part? You have just very clearly stated that
Heavy objects fall to earth is the Truth, after all. Therefore, you claim to know 'the Truth'. Are you now also saying that you are bonkers as well? You did, after all, just stipulate that this is 'without exception'.
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:46 pmFor example, you wrote:
Once it was realized that the Universe is getting bigger ... ... it didn't take long to work out it used to be smaller. Now, are these statements part of a story, or are they facts?
They are part of a story.
So, the actual and real Truth then IS: The Universe may NOT be getting bigger at all?
And, if this is True, then the Universe may NOT have began at all, is also the Truth, correct?
If your answer to these two questions is Yes, then the actual and real fact IS: Human beings do NOT know if the Universe is expanding AND human beings do NOT know if the Universe began. Do you agree with this?
If yes, then great. We agree on what the facts ARE.
If no, then WHY NOT?
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:46 pmYou can write whatever you want at the front of your "story" book, but are you proposing this statement as a fact, or as just another story? From the way you write, from my perspective, this is just NOT very clear to me. It is hard to differentiate between what are just stories and what are proposed as actual facts some times. Your assistance in clearing this up for me now would be gratefully appreciated.
'Heavy objects fall to the ground' is a fact.
As explained only to a very narrow and small LOOKING human being that is only a, relative, "fact".
But, anyway, you are NOT actually answering MY QUESTION about what is a fact or NOT a fact. You are, instead, answering some thing, you brought into here, which is TRYING TO deflect away from what I am actually POINTING OUT. That is; The Universe expanding is NOT a fact at all.
And, IF it is NOT a fact at all, then saying 'the Universe is expanding' is either an ASSUMPTION, and/or a BELIEF, or it is just a view/thought, which could be completely WRONG, or partly wrong. Now, which one is it?
uwot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:10 pmAny explanation for why that happens is a story.
Age wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:46 pmThe obvious ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS in what you wrote following those two statements are very clear, but we can leave them for now until you clear this up first.
Aw Age, now you're just being rude.
Why do you ASSUME that i am just being rude.
My intention is NOT to be rude at all, but rather just point out the ASSUMPTIONS and/or BELIEFS you have and hold onto. Like, for example;
There is no good reason to think that the Universe started out as any particular size. The OBVIOUS ASSUMPTION and/or BELIEF can be clearly SEEN in that statement of yours.