The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:54 am

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:29 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:45 am
Yeah, because the whole point is the speed is irrelevant, I can put in 1573835544 and because of it the argument it won't matter what the number is....that is the point.
Because it 's not about the number. It's about the units.

1573835544 rogmols per smurfon

Rogmols per smurfon -> relativism. Dualism. etc.
I see your point but a unit and quantity cannot always be seperated, but you are correct.

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:02 am

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:25 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:40 am
This I will respect.

1. Light in a complete vacuum is theoretical.

2. Physics is empirical, when it becomes theoretical it is no longer empirical...it is theoretical.

3. The identity of physics, in light of theory being core axioms, becomes muddled with metaphysics, math, logic, psychology, etc.

4. Light in a pure vacuum, because it is not empirically proven (as no perfect vacuum exists and what is close to a "perfect" is still inside a non vacuum framework) is not physics.

5. Physics delves outside it's own boundaries for certain core axioms.

6. Light in a pure vacuum is strictly 1 variable. The vacuum can have no other variable, nor can the vacuum be inside of a non vacuum framework as the light in turn is inside the other framework. Even light inside a vacuum with someone staring at it from the outside introduces a non vacuum state.

7. Because it is only 1 variable, and nothingness, the variable inevitable is self referencing.
Everything else is spot-on except point 7.

Variables are mental constructs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy

Light in a vacuum travels at a constant speed. That is all you have to take away from it.

From there onwards. You require a mind to quantify this speed. A mind to assign it a unit such as 'meters per second".

Measurement. Experience. They are the same thing.

You are observing the symbol-grounding problem at play: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_grounding_problem

When you start asking "what are the meter and the second defined in terms of?" you will spot the circularity.
Light in a complete vacuum requires it to inevitably have an inherent level of self consciousness to it due to its self referencing capability as a self moving system.

Empirical light is what it is, but abstractly and intuitively it is inevitablely linked to "reason" or a "rational faculty" as well.
Last edited by Eodnhoj7 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Logik
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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:07 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:02 am
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:25 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:40 am
This I will respect.

1. Light in a complete vacuum is theoretical.

2. Physics is empirical, when it becomes theoretical it is no longer empirical...it is theoretical.

3. The identity of physics, in light of theory being core axioms, becomes muddled with metaphysics, math, logic, psychology, etc.

4. Light in a pure vacuum, because it is not empirically proven (as no perfect vacuum exists and what is close to a "perfect" is still inside a non vacuum framework) is not physics.

5. Physics delves outside it's own boundaries for certain core axioms.

6. Light in a pure vacuum is strictly 1 variable. The vacuum can have no other variable, nor can the vacuum be inside of a non vacuum framework as the light in turn is inside the other framework. Even light inside a vacuum with someone staring at it from the outside introduces a non vacuum state.

7. Because it is only 1 variable, and nothingness, the variable inevitable is self referencing.
Everything else is spot-on except point 7.

Variables are mental constructs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy

Light in a vacuum travels at a constant speed. That is all you have to take away from it.

From there onwards. You require a mind to quantify this speed. A mind to assign it a unit such as 'meters per second".

Measurement. Experience. They are the same thing.

You are observing the symbol-grounding problem at play: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_grounding_problem

When you start asking "what are the meter and the second defined in terms of?" you will spot the circularity.
Light in a complete vacuum requires it to inevitably have an inherent level of self consciousness to it die to its self referencing capability as a self moving system.

Empirical light is what it is, but abstractly and intuitively it is inevitablely linked to "reason" or a "rational faculty" as well.
To say ANYTHING about light beyond "it has a constant speed" (both 'speed' and 'light' being concepts).
Requires entanglement with the observer. It requires empiricism.

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:10 am

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:07 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:02 am
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:25 am

Everything else is spot-on except point 7.

Variables are mental constructs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy

Light in a vacuum travels at a constant speed. That is all you have to take away from it.

From there onwards. You require a mind to quantify this speed. A mind to assign it a unit such as 'meters per second".

Measurement. Experience. They are the same thing.

You are observing the symbol-grounding problem at play: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_grounding_problem

When you start asking "what are the meter and the second defined in terms of?" you will spot the circularity.
Light in a complete vacuum requires it to inevitably have an inherent level of self consciousness to it die to its self referencing capability as a self moving system.

Empirical light is what it is, but abstractly and intuitively it is inevitablely linked to "reason" or a "rational faculty" as well.
To say ANYTHING about light beyond "it has a constant speed" (both 'speed' and 'light' being concepts).
Requires entanglement with the observer. It requires empiricism.
The grounding of empiricism, as well as the philosophical nature of empiricism itself, requires interpretation through abstraction.

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:13 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:10 am
The grounding of empiricism, as well as the philosophical nature of empiricism itself, requires interpretation through abstraction.
Ultimately, Philosophy itself can be conceptualised as the human activity which attempts to address the problem of infinite interpretations. This is the same sentiment I express with 'change is the only constant'; or"change is the only real problem". System dynamics.

Symbol-manipulation is computation.

And you can conceptualise the science of Physics as an attempt to solve the symbol-grounding problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_grounding_problem

If the symbol-grounding problem can be solved, then the need for interpretation (at least in Science) disappears.

I think philosophers like Deleuze caught onto this in recent times.

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:20 am

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:13 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:10 am
The grounding of empiricism, as well as the philosophical nature of empiricism itself, requires interpretation through abstraction.
Ultimately, Philosophy itself can be conceptualised as the human activity which attempts to address the problem of infinite interpretations.

And you can conceptualise the science of Physics as an attempt to solve the symbol-grounding problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_grounding_problem

If the symbol-grounding problem can be solved, then the need for interpretation (at least in Science) disappears.
The infinite interpretations sets a constant foundation for philosophy as directed movement. I have a thread in the metaphysics section about this.

As directed movement, symbolism effectively is grounded in directional properties where the symbols is directed towards another symbol while directed to an abstract or empirical reality simultaneously. The root of symbolism must be in spatial axioms similar to heiroglyphs.

Logik
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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:24 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:20 am
As directed movement, symbolism effectively is grounded in directional properties where the symbols is directed towards another symbol while directed to an abstract or empirical reality simultaneously. The root of symbolism must be in spatial axioms similar to heiroglyphs.
Directed movement. Arrow of time.

What's the difference?

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:39 am

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:24 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:20 am
As directed movement, symbolism effectively is grounded in directional properties where the symbols is directed towards another symbol while directed to an abstract or empirical reality simultaneously. The root of symbolism must be in spatial axioms similar to heiroglyphs.
Directed movement. Arrow of time.

What's the difference?
The arrow of time, and heidegger observes this, is strictly a line between two points. The beginning point is directed to another point, inevitably the same point because all points are the same, and a circularity results.

The prime triad, I argue, is the foundational axioms for....well everything.

Logik
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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:56 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:39 am
The arrow of time, and heidegger observes this, is strictly a line between two points.
Only when you abstract these 'points' to represent macrostates of an entire systems.

You have discarded any and all distinctions between the microstates.

I wouldn't read Heidegger on this. Read Boltzmann and Maxwell regarding statistical mechanics.

This is the micro-macro state distinction in statistical mechanics.
This is the general-particular distinction in philosophy.
Or reductionism-holism distinction in systems theory.

Scale.

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:02 am

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:56 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:39 am
The arrow of time, and heidegger observes this, is strictly a line between two points.
Only when you abstract these 'points' to represent macrostates of an entire systems.

You have discarded any and all distinctions between the microstates.

I wouldn't read Heidegger on this. Read Boltzmann and Maxwell regarding statistical mechanics.

This is the micro-macro state distinction in statistical mechanics.
This is the general-particular distinction in philosophy.
Or reductionism-holism distinction in systems theory.

Scale.
I am not limiting it to heidegger, quantum entanglement, as well as particle movement (moving from point A to point B) shows this as well....the example can go on.


Those "distinctions" are strictly observations of dualism derived from thetical and antithetical states going back to neitzchian perspectivism.

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:08 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:02 am
Those "distinctions" are strictly observations of dualism derived from thetical and antithetical states going back to neitzchian perspectivism.
Call it observation or call it a recognition.

All human reasoning takes place on a continuum.

With the 'dualism' being the left/right, upper/lower, true/false, good/bad bounds of the continuum.

It's all binary classification! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_classification

Bounded rationality.

This links directly to your "morality is symmetry in time' thread. That which remains is the observer. The centre, the 0 of your axes, the line which divides the whole into two parts. Man is the measure of all things!

Until we solve the symbol-grounding problem. Then we enter the era of trans-humanism.

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:06 am

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:08 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:02 am
Those "distinctions" are strictly observations of dualism derived from thetical and antithetical states going back to neitzchian perspectivism.
Call it observation or call it a recognition.

All human reasoning takes place on a continuum.

With the 'dualism' being the left/right, upper/lower, true/false, good/bad bounds of the continuum.

It's all binary classification! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_classification

Bounded rationality.

This links directly to your "morality is symmetry in time' thread. That which remains is the observer. The centre, the 0 of your axes, the line which divides the whole into two parts. Man is the measure of all things!

Until we solve the symbol-grounding problem. Then we enter the era of trans-humanism.
Point space is the foundation of consciousness, yes.

The dualisms are solved by hegelian/fichte synthesis and necessitate a traidic state reflective of the quantifiable nature, inherent within consciousness, reflected through the variety of world religions while alluding to elements of a triadic state of logic evidenced by pierce's work (which I have to familiarize myself with further and eventually)

Left/right, etc. are thetical and antithetical dual states of horizon(tal) space. The same applies for the other duals repectively.

The symbol grounding problem is solved when we find the core axioms of all symbols: the point, line and circle as ⊙, which is reflected in many cultures, religions and philosophies as well as existing as a foundational defintion of God/Divinity in the "24 philosophers".

And no, transhumanism is a degradation of the human condition...it is dangerous and pure evil.

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Logik » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:58 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:06 am
The symbol grounding problem is solved when we find the core axioms of all symbols
This is what physics is trying to do. Discover irreducible truth.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:06 am
And no, transhumanism is a degradation of the human condition...it is dangerous and pure evil.
I don't think so. The human condition is what it is. You recognise that about the only thing that makes sense in this unexplainable place is creation.

Create! Create mathematics. Create language. Create knowledge. Create self.

Part of philosophy, after all, is the very attempt to define yourself. No?

if we define human consciousness in a computer language we have transcended this physical form...

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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:15 am

Logik wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:58 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:06 am
The symbol grounding problem is solved when we find the core axioms of all symbols
This is what physics is trying to do. Discover irreducible truth.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:06 am
And no, transhumanism is a degradation of the human condition...it is dangerous and pure evil.
I don't think so. The human condition is what it is. You recognise that about the only thing that makes sense in this unexplainable place is creation.

Create! Create mathematics. Create language. Create knowledge. Create self.

Part of philosophy, after all, is the very attempt to define yourself. No?

if we define human consciousness in a computer language we have transcended this physical form...
ROFL!!!!!!!!!

What a crock of religious fundamentalist bullshit. People have been trying to control everything since before recorded time...it is the worlds oldest religion.

And look what changed...they are all dead and most are forgotten.

Logik
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Re: The Problem of Light and Speed in a Vacuum

Post by Logik » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:25 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:15 am
ROFL!!!!!!!!!

What a crock of religious fundamentalist bullshit. People have been trying to control everything since before recorded time...it is the worlds oldest religion.

And look what changed...they are all dead and most are forgotten.
They are dead and mostly forgotten. But their knowledge benefits mankind. And yes - it is the world's oldest religion. The desire for determinism ;)

Look around you. Are you trying to tell me that the world today is the same as it was 3000 years ago? What period of human history would you have preferred to live in?

You are still seeking personal glory.

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