What is gravity?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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commonsense
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by commonsense »

:oops:
Last edited by commonsense on Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
uwot
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by uwot »

Impenitent, what the fuck are you doing asking serious questions all of a sudden? Meh. In order:
Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pmwould a magnet's strength on another planet vary with the size of the planet?
Well the honest answer is I don't know, having only ever been on one planet, but I would be surprised if a few million miles made a huge difference to the laws of physics. The assumption is that the rules are universal, so it is simply a matter that the more massive the planet, the close the magnet has to be to win.
Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pm would the chemical make up of said magnet be different?
Could, for example, aluminium be magnetic on Mars? Well never say never, but never.
Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pmdid magnets react differently on the moon or in outer space?
That's the test isn't it? Good question. I don't know the answer, but I really think if it were shown that magnets do weird shit in outer space we would have heard about it.
uwot
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by uwot »

commonsense wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:28 pmMagnetism and gravity are 2 names for the same force.
So try this experiment. Stand on some bathroom scales. Does the dial move? Now step on a compass. Does the needle move?
Impenitent
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by Impenitent »

uwot wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:33 pm Impenitent, what the fuck are you doing asking serious questions all of a sudden? Meh. In order:
Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pmwould a magnet's strength on another planet vary with the size of the planet?
Well the honest answer is I don't know, having only ever been on one planet, but I would be surprised if a few million miles made a huge difference to the laws of physics. The assumption is that the rules are universal, so it is simply a matter that the more massive the planet, the close the magnet has to be to win.
Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pm would the chemical make up of said magnet be different?
Could, for example, aluminium be magnetic on Mars? Well never say never, but never.
Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pmdid magnets react differently on the moon or in outer space?
That's the test isn't it? Good question. I don't know the answer, but I really think if it were shown that magnets do weird shit in outer space we would have heard about it.
thanks, the conversation just struck me so I asked ...

I thought that the gravitational pull from larger planets was greater than that on Earth so I thought magnetism on the larger planets may differ accordingly...

if magnetism on the larger planet is different, perhaps a denser or "heavier" metal would be more magnetic...

perhaps if the magnet was far enough away from a gravitational source it would do weird stuff...

a compass on the moon doesn't point north does it? (then again, north on the moon is different than north on the Earth isn't it?)

-Imp
uwot
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by uwot »

seeds wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:10 pm...you are simply confirming my suggestion that there is yet a deeper explanation for the workings of gravity.
Well seeds, you know we're both on the same page with this. Neither of us is content with the purely mathematical description of reality.
seeds wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:10 pmIn which case, I am simply speculating that it might have something to do with, if not quantum entanglement (as was offered in the OP), then some other aspect of the universe’s underlying informational script...
Yep. It might do. The trick is to design an experiment that would provide an result that is consistent with your assumption that there is an "underlying informational script", or blows it out of the water. All we really know is that we're both still here, and we are so blessed we can spend some portion of our time creating stories about our experiences.
commonsense
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by commonsense »

:oops:
Last edited by commonsense on Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What is gravity?

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commonsense wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:24 pm Gravity is the force generated by the electromagnetic attraction between objects.
You are joking aren't you?

Gravity and magnetism are totally different phenomena. All mass is accelerated toward other masses and the rate of acceleration is always directly proportional to the mass and inversely proportional to the distance. That acceleration is described as a force of attraction. Gravity has no poles.

Magnetic force is totally independent of mass (except for the mass of the electrons involved) and there is no relationship between mass and the force which may either attract or repel. Ferromagnetic materials are attracted to a magnetic field, diamagnetic material is repelled by a magnetic field, and for all magnetic fields, like poles always repel.

There is no gravitation repulsion, and no magnetic attraction between most physical bodies.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by RCSaunders »

QuantumT wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 11:02 pm More and more pseudo-scientists actually consider all matter to be information (not matter or energy, just data). We are quite sure nothing in the universe can disappear, but if anything can be added, and how that could happen, is another - and very interesting - discussion.
Fixed it.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What is gravity?

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QuantumT wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 11:33 pm They call it information theory. It's the new kid on the block. But it's gaining scientific territory rapidly, mostly due to string theory, wich is based on math (read my thread about "Math and reality": viewtopic.php?f=26&t=24014).
Hardly new. Information theory was developed by Claude Shannon around 1948. Information theory has absolutely nothing to do with, "information," that has, "meaning." It pertains to nothing but the integrity of electronic signals or states that are stored or transmitted. Those states or signals do not have to have any intelligible information in them at all. The name is a total misnomer.

Idiots, with absolutely no understanding of information technology and a smattering of knowledge of thermodynamics have completely distorted the meaning of information theory.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What is gravity?

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surreptitious57 wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:57 am Gravity only propagates ...
Since when did gravity, "propagate?"
seeds
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by seeds »

Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pm did magnets react differently on the moon or in outer space?
uwot wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:33 pm That's the test isn't it? Good question. I don't know the answer, but I really think if it were shown that magnets do weird shit in outer space we would have heard about it.
After a quick encounter with our omniscient oracle Google, she granted me the following vision (in the form of a (2:18 min) video taken on the International Space Station: https://youtu.be/G_uKt2i2jvc

The point is that if magnets seem to behave in zero gravity in pretty much the same way they do in full-on earth gravity (as is shown in the clip), then they probably won’t be behaving much differently on a planet with stronger gravity.

However, I’m guessing that based on Uncle Albert’s theories, the “time frame” in which the magnet’s properties do their thing will be ever-so-slightly slower on a planet with stronger gravity than on one with weaker gravity.
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uwot
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by uwot »

commonsense wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:28 pmAdd up the energy vectors of the permutations and see what you get.
I wouldn't know where to start. What does that even mean?
uwot
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Er: What is gravity?

Post by uwot »

seeds wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:03 pmThe point is that if magnets seem to behave in zero gravity in pretty much the same way they do in full-on earth gravity (as is shown in the clip), then they probably won’t be behaving much differently on a planet with stronger gravity.
Thank you for sharing your research. Yeah, I would have been very surprised by a different outcome, but whatever the truth, it's a mad world.
seeds wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:03 pmHowever, I’m guessing that based on Uncle Albert’s theories, the “time frame” in which the magnet’s properties do their thing will be ever-so-slightly slower on a planet with stronger gravity than on one with weaker gravity.
Yup, that's what general relativity predicts, and to my knowledge, no experiment has found otherwise.
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Sculptor
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by Sculptor »

seeds wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:03 pm
Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pm did magnets react differently on the moon or in outer space?
uwot wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:33 pm That's the test isn't it? Good question. I don't know the answer, but I really think if it were shown that magnets do weird shit in outer space we would have heard about it.
After a quick encounter with our omniscient oracle Google, she granted me the following vision (in the form of a (2:18 min) video taken on the International Space Station: https://youtu.be/G_uKt2i2jvc

The point is that if magnets seem to behave in zero gravity in pretty much the same way they do in full-on earth gravity (as is shown in the clip), then they probably won’t be behaving much differently on a planet with stronger gravity.

However, I’m guessing that based on Uncle Albert’s theories, the “time frame” in which the magnet’s properties do their thing will be ever-so-slightly slower on a planet with stronger gravity than on one with weaker gravity.
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You have missed the obvious here. That was a lovely demonstration by the astronaut. But it is blindingly obvious that you can't actually do the same thing on earth as those magnets which were in free fall on the space station, would have soon hit the ground.
On a planet with higher gravity the magnets would have much more to overcome.
seeds
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Re: What is gravity?

Post by seeds »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:22 am You have missed the obvious here. That was a lovely demonstration by the astronaut. But it is blindingly obvious that you can't actually do the same thing on earth as those magnets which were in free fall on the space station, would have soon hit the ground.
On a planet with higher gravity the magnets would have much more to overcome.
I was mostly going by Impenitent's overall comments, especially this one...
Impenitent wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:47 pm perhaps if the magnet was far enough away from a gravitational source it would do weird stuff...
...so I felt he was speaking about the properties of a magnet - in and of itself - behaving oddly (“doing weird stuff”) when situated in varying gravitational fields.

However, as was demonstrated in the video clip, it seemed to behave precisely as one would expect it to behave.

Also, while we’re at it, you said the following about my OP:
Sculptor wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:09 am This is like asking if people's appreciation of the Mona Lisa has something to do with the chemical bonding of titanium lead and linseed oil.
How so?
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