The Big Bang is Wrong

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Viveka
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The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Viveka » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:26 pm

The Big Bang is nonsense; just a theistic model of genesis (not the biblical) with no scientific support. Dark matter hasn't been detected yet. And with gravitational waves the interferometer won't work because the space the laser beam is moving through, as well as the laser beam, will both ripple at the same time. It is like trying to knock a cowboy off his horse in a movie shown on a flexible screen TV by flexing the screen. And with the CMB: If the CMB is homogeneous, then the big bang is wrong due to the inhomogeneity of the universe. If the CMB is inhomogeneous, then the big bang is wrong due to there being no homogeneous temperature across the universe which would reflect the relic of the big bang's 'bang'. If anything, we should see the CMB refer to the interstellar medium.
Thus there is no room for the big bang, inhomogeneous or homogeneous CMB. Additionally, there are large-scale voids between matter that formed before the big bang's time of genesis allows, and these voids are interspersed with galaxies and superclusters that are connected by bridges of matter, but dark matter cannot model these bridges.


Viveka
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Viveka » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:09 pm

Yes, I am saying those are wrong. The theory, data, and hypotheses don't match up.

"And knowing the source of gravitational waves is key for follow-up observations. Now, scientists using traditional light and radio telescopes will know where to point their instruments in they sky once a wave is detected."

How can we possibly pinpoint a merging of black holes millions of light years away moving at light speed with VIRGO and LIGO detectors a few million miles apart due to parallax. And the detecting isn't even done by the interferometers, it's done by telescopes 'pin-pointing' the source. I could choose thousands of different sources for gravitational wave candidates, but since it is assumed 'such powerful sources make gravitational waves' then it must be 'super-massive black holes'. It's a lot of subjectivity in such supposedly scientific work.

Viveka
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Viveka » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:22 pm

What exactly is the universe expanding into? And if we use the balloon model as an analogy for the universe to explain how it has no center, with dots on the balloon galaxies and nebulas, when we expand the balloon we get expansion of space-time, supposedly, but it has no center, right? No. The orthogonal dimension of 'space' (call it what you like) to the surface of the balloon is the center. If the universe expanded from one singularity, it has a center, too. To say that the universe has no finite boundary is just baseless conjecture; it's like saying that if i walk on a mobius strip I will end up where I was, except that we cannot detect the extremes of the mobius strip, and the further we peer into space, we see more and more structures that are larger and larger scale dealing with known physics that doesn't only restrict itself to gravity and magnetism-only.

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Greta
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Greta » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:19 pm

Where is the universe's exact centre? Where is your exact centre? Or a tree's? We all started out very small and then expanded.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:07 am

Greta wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:19 pm
Where is the universe's exact centre? Where is your exact centre? Or a tree's? We all started out very small and then expanded.
From a point to be specific as all points are "centers" in themselves. In this respect the universe, as we observe it has infinite centers. However according to geometry the point is not a thing in and of itself, but rather a boundary of division (I don't know if I agree with this yet, but we will keep that for the sake of argument). In this respect all "centers" in themselves are the divisionary "act" which enable all being to manifest structure.

I am not for or against the big bang, however to argue that all creation began from a center point is to argue that all creation began with an act of division resulting in multitude of non on dimensional structures we observe today. In this respect the big bang does correlate geometrically with a "division" of space from a center point. This nature of division, as a propogative flux (as further centers are formed from it) is inherent within all observation of time and space considering all boundaries, observed as the one dimensional line, exist if and only if there is a point.

If all being began as a unified form of 1 dimensional space, then the only option is the Circle. This circle in turn manifested that point, as an approximation of the circle, which in turn formed the boundaries of curves, lines, etc. we see today. The big bang would be the geometric equivalent of the circle, as a universal ether, reflecting upon itself to form all points, curves, lines, etc. that form the spatial elements of reality we observe today.

The big bang is fundamentally an observation of the beginning of flux, where before there was only stability, and as a beginning of flux it has an end point considering all flux is unstable. In this respect the big bang could be observed as having happened and potentially happening various times...a heart beat of God so to speak.

davidm
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by davidm » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:36 am

Viveka wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:22 pm
What exactly is the universe expanding into?
Nothing. It's just expanding (distances increasing between galaxies over time).
And if we use the balloon model as an analogy for the universe to explain how it has no center, with dots on the balloon galaxies and nebulas, when we expand the balloon we get expansion of space-time, supposedly, but it has no center, right?
Right
No.
Yes.
The orthogonal dimension of 'space' (call it what you like) ...
There is no orthogonal dimension of space to the balloon surface. The balloon surface is an analogy. It is a 2-dimensional representation of 3-space expanding over time (fourth dimension). In the analogy, the balloon surface is all that there is.

If the universe expanded from one singularity, it has a center, too.
No.
To say that the universe has no finite boundary is just baseless conjecture; it's like saying that if i walk on a mobius strip I will end up where I was, except that we cannot detect the extremes of the mobius strip, and the further we peer into space, we see more and more structures that are larger and larger scale dealing with known physics that doesn't only restrict itself to gravity and magnetism-only.
The universe has no finite boundary under any model. It is either finite and unbounded or it is infinite.

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Greta
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Greta » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:56 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:07 am
If all being began as a unified form of 1 dimensional space, then the only option is the Circle. This circle in turn manifested that point, as an approximation of the circle, which in turn formed the boundaries of curves, lines, etc. we see today. The big bang would be the geometric equivalent of the circle, as a universal ether, reflecting upon itself to form all points, curves, lines, etc. that form the spatial elements of reality we observe today.
It is said that the universe is probably flat although, if the universe is many times larger than we know, then we could not detect the curve.
Eodnhoj wrote:The big bang is fundamentally an observation of the beginning of flux, where before there was only stability, and as a beginning of flux it has an end point considering all flux is unstable. In this respect the big bang could be observed as having happened and potentially happening various times...a heart beat of God so to speak.
Careful with those Einstein-style God metaphors ... :)

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Cerveny
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Cerveny » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:30 pm

Once again, for the simplicity pls imagine a growing/condensing (not “expanding”) 4D sphere. The presence takes part on its active, quantum 3D surface, the History is stiffed inside such ball and the Future is an other, not ordered yet, phase of reality...

Viveka
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Viveka » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:58 pm

davidm wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:36 am
Viveka wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:22 pm
What exactly is the universe expanding into?
Nothing. It's just expanding (distances increasing between galaxies over time).
And if we use the balloon model as an analogy for the universe to explain how it has no center, with dots on the balloon galaxies and nebulas, when we expand the balloon we get expansion of space-time, supposedly, but it has no center, right?
Right
No.
Yes.
The orthogonal dimension of 'space' (call it what you like) ...
There is no orthogonal dimension of space to the balloon surface. The balloon surface is an analogy. It is a 2-dimensional representation of 3-space expanding over time (fourth dimension). In the analogy, the balloon surface is all that there is.

If the universe expanded from one singularity, it has a center, too.
No.
To say that the universe has no finite boundary is just baseless conjecture; it's like saying that if i walk on a mobius strip I will end up where I was, except that we cannot detect the extremes of the mobius strip, and the further we peer into space, we see more and more structures that are larger and larger scale dealing with known physics that doesn't only restrict itself to gravity and magnetism-only.
The universe has no finite boundary under any model. It is either finite and unbounded or it is infinite.
I'm glad you gave quality arguments. Yes and No. I'm baffled by how well you have reasoned. :/

Viveka
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Viveka » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:06 pm

Also, where did the singularity come from? Nothing?

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Arising_uk
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:26 pm

Viveka wrote:Yes, I am saying those are wrong. ...
So what do you think they detected then?

Viveka
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Viveka » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:48 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:26 pm
Viveka wrote:Yes, I am saying those are wrong. ...
So what do you think they detected then?
The AEther.

"LIGO's interferometers are fundamentally Michelson Interferometers, a device invented in the 1880's"

"LIGO's interferometers are the largest ever built. With arms 4 km (2.5 mi.) long, they are 360 times larger than the one used in the Michelson-Morley experiment (which had arms 11 m (33 feet) long)."

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Greta
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Greta » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:09 pm

Viveka wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:06 pm
Also, where did the singularity come from? Nothing?
You might need to read Lawrence Krauss's work.

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Arising_uk
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Re: The Big Bang is Wrong

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:16 pm

Viveka wrote:The AEther. ...
:?:

The whole point of a 'gravitational wave' is that it is a ripple in SpaceTime which presumably is this "AEther" so are you now saying a gravitational wave has been detected?

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