Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 am
ken wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am
all people distort the actual truth, and/or are completely blinded from the actual truth, because of and by their own previously held assumptions and beliefs.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:10 pm
That is your belief, Ken.
ken wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am
Surely you understand that
I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.
So, in the first sentence, where you said
all people, you considered yourself excluded?
Not necessarily so. A person does NOT have to believe any thing nor have to disbelieve any thing.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 am Such a statement does not apply to you?
No, of course not. If, and when, i am assuming, believing or disbelieving some thing, then i also am being distorted, and/or are completely blinded from the actual truth.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 am If so, please explain why it applies to all people but not to you.
Did you assume, think, or believe that what I said would apply to all people but not to me?
If so, WHY did you assume, think, or believe that?
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 am
So, YOU have
views, whereas other people have assumptions and beliefs that blind them and distort the actual truth? Why would you make this distinction?
Because 'views', by their nature, can and do change. Whereas, 'beliefs' can not. Only during or after the dismissal of a belief, the belief returns to a view, when then be changed.
I made this distinction after I discovered, while talking to some people with relative power, of how destructive the power of belief can actually be. I decided then that I was not going to believe nor disbelieve any thing again. I then later also became aware of the power of assumptions too. Assuming also can close a person off from the truth.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:10 pmAdditionally, you often seem to imply that you are not as limited/distorted in the ways that other people are.
There is no thing in there that I can see that implies that, except of course when I say that I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing, and, I do not want to assume any thing. But that is more than implying. I state when you, any person, stops assuming and believing or disbelieving some thing, then they will be far more open, which means they will not be as limited/distorted as they were previously. Surely it is pretty well common knowledge already that the best, easiest, quickest, and simplest way to learn some thing new is to being open to it.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 amken wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am
Do I? How do I imply that?
See above.
If you were to be a bit more specific, then we can all have a much better look at it, and then discuss it more thoroughly.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 amken wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 amDid it ever occur to you to clarify, instead of just continually assuming?
I've just done that.
Yes you are clarifying now and see how much different My responses are. Hopefully I am coming across clearer, and better understood.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 amIt seemed so obvious from your words, I didn't think I was assuming.
From My perspective there is a lot of assuming going on. But that is because really I am the only one who KNOWS, for sure, what is being said in My words. This applies for ALL people. Only they can KNOW, for sure, what is being said and meant in the words they use. And, only from clarification can what was being truly meant be truly discovered. That is what I find humorous with human beings always TRYING TO decipher what other people meant in the words they wrote, especially after the writer has passed on. No one ever really thinks to clarify what a person actually means, when they are alive and able to clarify. Second guessing or assuming seems to be the preferred option.
As you can now see, hopefully, what can appear to be so obvious, to a reader, may in fact not be true at all.
ALL readers, and listeners, come from differing experiences and so ALL have different preconceptions. But if we all can rid ourselves of those preconceptions, assumptions, and beliefs when listening to and/or reading others, then I am pretty sure a far bigger and truer picture can be formed and shared, and thus seen, and understood.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 amLacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:10 pmThought experiment, Ken: Is not everything part of the actual truth of life?
ken wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am
In a sense that could be very well true.
So, when you say that people are not seeing the actual truth of life, that gives the impression that YOU DO see SUCH A DISTINCT THING (or why would you say it?).
Did I say they are not seeing it or that the assumptions and/or beliefs they have distort and blind them from the actual truth.
Obviously the truth of Life would NOT change. It is there 'staring us in the face', as some may say. The truth of Life is here for ALL of us to see, look at and observe.
The reason I say, what I say, is to evoke feelings to people, and then watch the reaction.
What will be observed is people instantly start assuming. People then write assumingly, which has been shown to happen multiple times throughout this forum already, with, only on the vary rarest of occasions clarification being asked for prior to the written assumption, belief, and/or already held conclusion.
Only once, maybe twice, if I recall correctly, in this forum, did a person, from the start of our discussion who was insistent that they were right and I was wrong finally come around to seeing what I was ACTUALLY saying, all because they started to ask Me clarifying questions. From then on they were able to fully understand WHAT I was saying, and in the end could see that what I said did make sense and appear correct.
I NEVER gave that impression that i see such a distinct thing. That was the impression you took on yourself, because of those past experiences you have had. I have experienced a way, which I think will show how to see such a distinct thing, BUT I can never know if that way is even close to being a satisfactory way until it is confirmed so. The only thing I can really do is express my past experiences as openly and as honestly as I can. But having the ability to remember all things as they happened perfectly is not one of my best assets. Not that I have an asset at all.
I am not here, in this forum, to be agreed with. I am just here to learn how to express better, and unintentionally also noticed to show how the Mind and the brain work. By how, and the way, people react to what I say is what I have wanted to a third person but have yet to find any person who has wanted to listen to me. I want to show how the brain has stopped what the Mind already sees and knows. What I am noticing more and more is that future readers will be able to see this more clearly in this forum. Once it is seen and understood it can then be seen just about everywhere where human beings communicate together.
I also actually did not even give the impression people are not seeing the actual truth of Life. I said they are distorted and/or blinded from it because of, the reasons given. The truth of Life is all around. People are looking at and seeing it all the time. But they are distorting that view or being blinded from it completely because of the way they are thinking. The thinking is preventing, or stopping, the knowing. That is, thinking from a somewhat closed perspective, instead of from a truly open perspective, stop
what ACTUALLY IS from being seen and understood.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 am We're all here living out our vast and amazing collection of experiences.
Yes, you have told Me that a few times already. And, I have totally agreed with you on this previously, and again now.
It is, by the way, also with that vast and amazing collection of experiences WHERE the truth of Life lays, and where It is seen, understood, and KNOWN. ONLY when people come together, and NOT separate, is WHEN It is seen.
How many prophets, preachers, sages, gurus believe that they uniquely see some "important actual truth" that others don't? [/quote]
To many for this one little individual to count.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 am If the sacred flows through all -- which would make the most sense --
And which I totally agree with, and have agreed with.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 am then it would appear to be sheer fantasy and ego that drives some to set themselves apart from the whole as unique seers.
Yes, agreed.
Which if people have noticed what I have been writing from the outset in this forum, the Truth IS what is agreed upon and accepted by ALL. ALL means EVERY THING, as a unified collective One. There can only be one unique seer, and that is the One that is made up of EVERY one. That is the only One that I know of that could possibly be able to see, know and understand it ALL.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:01 amI'm listening to tribal drums while I write this.
It makes me want to run outside amongst the trees in the moonlight. There is SO MUCH SPIRIT available in every moment. People can do whatever they want. It's all available. Fantastic!
Do you agree that that SPIRIT might also be in every moment I write? Or is that not possible?
I will not ask you go back and read what I have written from new fresh eyes and a clearer perspective now, but one day soon, hopefully, you will be able to see that I am NOT writing from the perspective that you have really been thinking I have. But I do write in a way, sometimes, to bring out that assuming/believing side in people. I can not demonstrate some thing, if I do not have the examples.
Also, what I want to, eventually, show is that SPIRIT that you talk about. I just do it in a roundabout way. I just need to show ITs existence from a scientific, religious, philosophical, spiritual, thoughtful, and emotion way so that I do not put any one off "side". A challenging and fairly slow process, but a very doable one.