Are you absolutely sure?
Could have you missed some thing, or, is it always Me who is missing some thing?
Are you absolutely sure?
Is that an assumption or a known fact?davidm wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:28 amRead this: Ten Minutes to Alpha Cenatauri? (You won’t read it, of course.)
There is no thing to overturn. There are, however, things that can and need to be put into their true relative perspective, that is if you want to see the real and true picture of things.
But does the actual trip take 2.12 years, or is that only what the person the spaceship observes?davidm wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:28 amFrom the above link:
To see how this works, let us suppose our spaceship heads to Alpha Centauri at 90% of the speed of light. According to the Earth-bound observer, the trip should take 4.86 years. According to the person on the spaceship, however, the trip takes only 2.12 years!
Does the distance to alpha centauri, in fact, actually become shorter, or just appears to become shorter for the person in the spacecraft?davidm wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:28 amThis is quite surprising — according to our argument, it seems that the spaceship pilot can reach Alpha Centauri in less time than it would take light. At first glance, it would seem our spaceship is traveling faster than light, since it travels 4.37 light-years in 2.12 years. However, what in fact happens is that the distance to Alpha Centauri becomes shorter for the person in the spacecraft.
Italicized by the author, not me.
Have they, if so, then how long does it take a human being to travel 4 light years traveling at the speed of light?davidm wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:51 amActually, in this very thread, people HAVE imagined humans traveling at the speed of light! I ask again, Can you not properly read?ken wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:50 pm Also, does any one have an answer as to why you, human beings, can do a thought experiment when discussing traveling anywhere between zero and just short of the speed of light, but it seems near impossible to get you human beings to do a thought experiment in regards to traveling at the speed of light? It is like their brains just completely block them from even being able to fathom the idea, let alone being able to see and discuss it?
Who cares? It is just a thought experiment.
Once again, another one who will NOT look at a thought experiment in relation to a human being traveling at the speed of light and will instead look from the brain only and reply from what information has been fed into it. The same one will although look into what it would take to build an, at the moment, impossible light clock, but will still shy away from looking at what it would take to travel at the speed of light.davidm wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:51 amBut if (for example) atoms could, as uwot has postulated for the hell of it, and if you understood the principle of the light clock, you would understand his point that there could be no photon exchanges between atoms moving at c. Of course you don't understand. As Trump would say, Sad!
They are both just observations, from two different people who naturally have different views from which they are looking from at the start, let alone the actual fact of the vastly different advantage points from which they are now gaining their points of views from. There is one right answer, which can be solved and shown with the right formula. However, people already say they KNOW what the answer is already, and if others do not follow nor accept that, then they must be to stupid to understand.
I think the problem is that many people think that there is some objective time, according to which the question 'How long was there nothing, before the Big Bang happened?' is answerable. Maybe there is, but from a human perspective, every method we have of measuring 'time' is dependent on our counting events that happen to material objects. A year is roughly how long it takes the Earth to orbit the Sun. A month is roughly how long it takes the Moon to orbit the Earth. A day is how long it takes the Earth to spin on it's axis. At that point it all gets arbitrary, because you can divide a day up any old how you like. In the west, we happen to have adopted the model of the ancient Egyptians and Mesopotamians of dividing a day into 24 hours, dividing hours by 60 for minutes, and minutes again by 60, for seconds. For day to day purposes, 'the time' is just a convenient way to describe the position of the Earth, in relation to the Sun and the Moon.ken wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:42 amIn regards to if a physical body can exist at the speed of light, I KNOW that is it said to be IMPOSSIBLE, and from what you have said here has made Me realize much more about WHY it is said to be IMPOSSIBLE. It was very informative, makes a lot of sense, and very easy to understand, so I thank you a lot for that. BUT I was NOT and NEVER was asking about any thing in relation to a human being being able to travel at the speed of light. What I WAS asking and still am is IF a human being could possibly travel at the speed of light, what then would happen in relation to the time is takes to travel a certain distance?
The thing is, even if there is some stuff that is 'time', we have no method of measuring it directly; all we can do is count things happening and the frequency of things happening is subject to variations caused by, among other things, the speed at which it is moving.
Well, it was a few pages back, but yes it has:
uwot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:44 pmOK. Assume that the speed of light really is as fast as anything can go. Suppose you have a grandfather clock travelling at c. If, in the simplest example, the pendulum is swinging in the plane of movement, it could swing backwards, but to swing in the direction of motion, it would have to exceed the speed of light; in which case, you have to abandon the premise that c really is the speed limit.
A human being will take no time at all to travel anywhere if travelling at the speed of lightken wrote:
how long does it take a human being to travel 4 light years travelling at the speed of light
It takes 2.12 years in his frame. Actual fact.But does the actual trip take 2.12 years, or is that only what the person the spaceship observes?
It actually is shorter. Really and truly.Does the distance to alpha centauri, in fact, actually become shorter, or just appears to become shorter for the person in the spacecraft?
One hundred percent wrong.What appeared to be the case would be proven right or wrong when they arrived on alpha centauri and looked back at earth. Then things would be brought back into their true perspective.
Just to humor you for a moment, let's say god made an exception for one human being to travel at light speed, while the theory of relativity otherwise completely holds.
Wouldn't that demand an absolute measure of space?
If the Humans that have traveled to Alpha Centauri at near light speed could look back and see instantly, they would see the Earth at the current date, otherwise they would see it as it was in the past, based on the length of time it takes the light to get to Alpha Centauri or 4.37 years, and it would take them a bit longer than that to get there, depending on what fraction of the speed of light they were traveling at.