Black Hole problems?!??!

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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HexHammer
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Re: Black Hole problems?!??!

Post by HexHammer » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:51 am

Noax wrote:Interesting assertion, especially since no spatial extension has ever been measured for matter, so it is interesting to assert that actual volume must be consumed by it.
Suppose I drop a 1KG water balloon into a black hole. What would be its finite weight when (what's left of) it reaches the bottom? What force would supply this weight? On Earth, EM force supplies weight. Without EM, everything would be in freefall and weigh nothing, as does everything in orbit. OK, if we had no orbital velocity, eventually nuclear forces would resist falling beyond a certain density, and we'd have weight again, about a billion times the weight given with EM. There must be a 5th force that is repulsive and stronger than gravity at these densities, that would prevent further collapse of any finite volume of matter. Absent that force, no finite volume can be maintained.
@_@ my head feel dizzy ..but thanks for contribution!!

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Cerveny
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Re: Black Hole problems?!??!

Post by Cerveny » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:27 am

According to (silly) GTR all black holes look the same: a "point" of space with infinite density of weight. How can they generate different gravitational fields and how can they keep angular momentum? (1/0=2/0)

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Noax
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Re: Black Hole problems?!??!

Post by Noax » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:42 pm

uwot wrote:Well yes, natural language has its flaws; what does 'yet' mean in this context?
The singularity in a black hole has not yet formed, so it doesn't exist. It will at some point. I didn't think I bent the usage of the word so far that you had to ask that.
I was thinking of something hypothetical: a rope tied to a distant planet, or the 'hand of god' perhaps.
A rope would be EM again. Hand-of-God is that never-yet-measured 5th force via which miracles are enacted. Hey God, could you please do a miracle in my beaker here a moment if you would please? Trying to get a reading on it.
You make it sound as if everything will be swallowed by a black hole; some sort of Big Crunch hypothesis. I think natural language actually can handle this one, it's not that the laws of physics 'break down' in a black hole, and yes, compressing matter and/or spacetime is qualitatively the same as reversing 'time', but if you keep squeezing/shrinking, there's no reason in maths to stop, which leads to infinities, infinite mass, infinite 'smallness', which have no meaning in 'reality'.
Big crunch is a good description, swallowing everything, with 'everything' being whatever mass falls into that particular black hole. I think black holes have a property of crunching equal matter and antimatter, so the big crunch actually cancels out all matter. The antimatter all comes from Hawking radiation, and the physicists need to explain to me how the black holes suck up disproportionate antimatter and radiate more matter into space. How does it affect that sorting?

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Noax
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Re: Black Hole problems?!??!

Post by Noax » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:06 pm

Cerveny wrote:According to (silly) GTR all black holes look the same: a "point" of space with infinite density of weight. How can they generate different gravitational fields and how can they keep angular momentum? (1/0=2/0)
They have different and finite masses, and they don't look the same. Infinite density just means we're dividing that mass by zero volume, but it doesn't make the total mass any different. Good point about the angular momentum, but I think one answer to that is that the singularity has not yet formed, so there is no infinite density at this time, and the matter within still has displacement and thus finite angular velocity. Of course, GTR does not speak in common language terms, and thus does not frame discussion of black holes in terms of what they're doing 'now'. As a singularity, they have finite mass and angular momentum, infinite density and angular velocity, and zero displacement. That's why it is called a singularity, just like the tangent function on your calculator hitting a singularity at pi/2, but that doesn't mean 'tan' is an invalid function.

osgart
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Re: Black Hole problems?!??!

Post by osgart » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:48 am

take an antacid and it should alleviate your black hole problems

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