Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Philosophy Explorer
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Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:26 am

For me the answer is yes as there appears to be evidence for it. But again for me the answer is no because we really don't know anything about it.

What about you?

PhilX

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Arising_uk
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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:47 am

Are you insane? As you appear to believe a logical contradiction.

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:15 am

Arising_uk wrote:Are you insane? As you appear to believe a logical contradiction.
Many people are in the same position as I am on many issues. Why act surprised?

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Skip » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:19 am

If there is "whatever" camp, that's what I'm firmly in.

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Dubious » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:40 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:For me the answer is yes as there appears to be evidence for it. But again for me the answer is no because we really don't know anything about it.

What about you?

PhilX
We know it must exist but what it is specifically - being electromagnetically invisible to normal matter - remains a shielded mystery. Mass can consist of more than what's apparent to us. Who knows, maybe it's a kind of tenuous version of a distributed Black Hole or distributed miniature Black Holes which can never be viewed directly except, as so much else in the Universe, by gravitational effects on normal matter.

If the 'effect' of something is noticed or understood without being able to account for its cause at the time that should suffice to force 'whatever' into a very high probability of existence. Right now, Dark Matter remains dark in more ways than one.

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by uwot » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:24 am

I think some people don't understand that dark energy and dark matter don't refer to any known material 'stuff'. They are just responses to observations. Dark energy is the name given to the force that is causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate. Whatever it is, there's a lot of it, because it acts on a cosmic scale, overcoming gravity and pushing distant galaxies apart.
Dark matter on the other hand is invoked to explain why the stars that make individual galaxies don't fly off into deep space. Something we can't see is generating gravity that holds galaxies together which should fly apart judging by the matter we can see.
So insofar as there are two mysteries to explain, the nominal explanations exist: there is a reason we see what we see, but we don't know what it is. The situation is the same with gravity: we know there is a force that attracts two or more bodies, and there are hypotheses that model it very successfully, but we don't know the cause of gravity.

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:30 am

uwot said:

"Whatever it is, there's a lot of it"

To clarify, the scientists say the two make up 95% of our universe.

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:29 pm

Because you are saying you believe True and False is true when it is false.

Because you say there is evidence but we don't know anything about it but evidence is knowing something about it.

Because by definition if there is evidence then it must be part of the Universe and I'd like to know what could be apart from the Universe that we could have evidence of?

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Arising_uk wrote:Because you are saying you believe True and False is true when it is false.

Because you say there is evidence but we don't know anything about it but evidence is knowing something about it.

Because by definition if there is evidence then it must be part of the Universe and I'd like to know what could be apart from the Universe that we could have evidence of?
You only deem to be concerned about my position. What is your position?

PhilX

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:02 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
You only deem to be concerned about my position. What is your position?

PhilX
I'm not a physicist. I attempt to be a philosopher and as such you have had my position. You appear to under the misapprehension that you have actually said something meaningful with your post?

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:48 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
You only deem to be concerned about my position. What is your position?

PhilX
I'm not a physicist. I attempt to be a philosopher and as such you have had my position. You appear to under the misapprehension that you have actually said something meaningful with your post?
I must have as you keep coming back to it. So what is your philosophical position about matter and energy?

PhilX

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:38 am

It's not the content of your post that brings me back it's the illogic and pretty much incoherence of your thoughts from a philosophical viewpoint.

I pretty much don't have a metaphysical position on such stuff anymore as its proven a pointless pursuit now the physicists are about town. But if I did I'd say matter is the stuff we think independent of mind and energy is the word physicists use to mean 'no fucking idea'.

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:57 am

Arising_uk wrote:It's not the content of your post that brings me back it's the illogic and pretty much incoherence of your thoughts from a philosophical viewpoint.

I pretty much don't have a metaphysical position on such stuff anymore as its proven a pointless pursuit now the physicists are about town. But if I did I'd say matter is the stuff we think independent of mind and energy is the word physicists use to mean 'no fucking idea'.
Illogic and incoherence :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
But in the meantime you keep coming back to my thread.

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:12 am

Because it's a Philosophy forum and I find your thoughts pretty much always a philosophical offense that I think should be addressed.

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Re: Do you count dark matter and dark energy as part of the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:23 am

Arising_uk wrote:Because it's a Philosophy forum and I find your thoughts pretty much always a philosophical offense that I think should be addressed.
A lame excuse. When you say "I find your thoughts...", you're just giving us YOUR opinions.

PhilX

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