## What does an airless hole need to really exist?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

MaryRuffin
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:01 pm

### What does an airless hole need to really exist?

It seems that a hole must start out "holeless" before it can exist.

For example a hole in the ground must have been filled in at some point (probably with dirt) before it can start to exist. And any other hole must have had something inside of it before it can start existing. Would this be an infinite regress I wonder? Does this sound logical to you?
wtf
Posts: 963
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:36 pm

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

Consider a flat surface of dirt. Workers come in and build up the surface by adding dirt, but they leave an area in the middle without any built up dirt.

You now have a hole that was already there before the workers showed up. Nothing was taken away. The hole was always there, you just didn't recognize it till the workers outlined it for you.

Isn't that exactly how sculpture works? The sculptor starts with a block of granite and takes away everything but the statue. Wasn't that statue already there in the block of granite?

Michelangelo, who knew a thing or two about sculpting, said: Every block of stone has a statue inside it and it is the task of the sculptor to discover it.
Arising_uk
Posts: 12313
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

MaryRuffin wrote:It seems that a hole must start out "holeless" before it can exist.

For example a hole in the ground must have been filled in at some point (probably with dirt) before it can start to exist. And any other hole must have had something inside of it before it can start existing. Would this be an infinite regress I wonder? Does this sound logical to you?
Not really no, as the hole wasn't there to be filled in at any time it just wasn't there until the earth was dug out and then it could be filled in if you wish.
Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

It needs empty space to exist before it can exist.

Scientists currently say that empty space can't exist due to quantum effects. Let's look at it from another angle: can a hole exist inside of a hole? How would the smaller hole exist if the larger hole didn't exist first? But the larger hole has nothing inside of it so how can it contain a smaller hole? (similar to Russell's paradox)

Just to say, this is really a metaphysics question that belongs to that forum.

PhilX
Arising_uk
Posts: 12313
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

Philosophy Explorer wrote:...
Let's look at it from another angle: can a hole exist inside of a hole?
No, a hole that 'exists' inside a hole is the hole.
How would the smaller hole exist if the larger hole didn't exist first?
It doesn't it's the larger hole.
But the larger hole has nothing inside of it so how can it contain a smaller hole? (similar to Russell's paradox)
Not even a paradox, it can't.
Just to say, this is really a metaphysics question that belongs to that forum.
Just bloody nonsense and babble as HH would say.
Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

Arising_uk wrote:
Philosophy Explorer wrote:...
Let's look at it from another angle: can a hole exist inside of a hole?
No, a hole that 'exists' inside a hole is the hole.
How would the smaller hole exist if the larger hole didn't exist first?
It doesn't it's the larger hole.
But the larger hole has nothing inside of it so how can it contain a smaller hole? (similar to Russell's paradox)
Not even a paradox, it can't.
Just to say, this is really a metaphysics question that belongs to that forum.
Just bloody nonsense and babble as HH would say.
On your last statement, are you saying that all of metaphysics is "just bloody nonsense and babble?..."

PhilX
Hobbes' Choice
Posts: 8364
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

MaryRuffin wrote:It seems that a hole must start out "holeless" before it can exist.

For example a hole in the ground must have been filled in at some point (probably with dirt) before it can start to exist. And any other hole must have had something inside of it before it can start existing. Would this be an infinite regress I wonder? Does this sound logical to you?
No a hole is a reference to a negation of solid matter; what artists call negative space.
You seem to be offering a contraction rather than something illogical.

"a hole in the ground must have been filled in at some point"

This implies that a hole pre-exists. A hole that has not been has not been "filled in" as that would imply that it was already a hole before - but you are then saying that it needs to be emptied to exist.
A hole is brought into existence by the removal of matter. There is no regress of any kind especially not a infinite one.
Harbal
Posts: 4342
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

It is obvious that no one here understands anything about holes.
artisticsolution
Posts: 1938
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:38 am
Contact:

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

Just like a man...always thinking every hole's only purpose is to be filled!
Hobbes' Choice
Posts: 8364
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

There I was diggin' this 'ole
Hole in the ground, so big and sorta round.... (it was)
And there was 'im standing up there
so grand and official with his nose in the air...
Harbal
Posts: 4342
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

Bernard Cribbins. Just one of the many reasons why I'm proud to be British.
Arising_uk
Posts: 12313
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

Philosophy Explorer wrote:On your last statement, are you saying that all of metaphysics is "just bloody nonsense and babble?. ...
Not quite but nearly.
How so?
Hobbes' Choice
Posts: 8364
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

Harbal wrote:Bernard Cribbins. Just one of the many reasons why I'm proud to be British.
I love BC, but I think national pride is a disease of the mind like all religion.
However much you like BC, you don't get to take credit for him just because you hail from the same arbitrary geographical region.
Hobbes' Choice
Posts: 8364
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am

### Re: What does an airless hole need to really exist?

Arising_uk wrote:
Philosophy Explorer wrote:On your last statement, are you saying that all of metaphysics is "just bloody nonsense and babble?. ...
Not quite but nearly.