Speed of time ?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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duszek
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Speed of time ?

Post by duszek » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:28 am

In a lecture about Einstein it was mentioned that atomic clocks had been used to show that time goes more quickly in the mountains and more slowly in low areas.
Probably because the latter ones are closer to the center of the earth and therefore the force of gravitation is weaker.

Do people in the mountains live and move more quickly ?

How can time "move" more quickly ?

Impenitent
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Impenitent » Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:24 pm

1. people on mountains are subject to more gravity... they have further to fall- and while they are falling (especially if they grab hold of their uncle), their relative speed increases...

2. swiss rockets

-Imp

of course you can just have fun and time flies

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Cerveny
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Cerveny » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:42 pm

Speed of the time is related to the speed of the light. Nothing can overtake the time. Then "mc2" can be understood as some kind of kinetic energy of the mass moving with/along the time...

Ginkgo
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:38 pm

As with time dilation you don't notice any difference if you share the same reference frame. It is only in different reference frames that observers would notice time running slower in one frame and faster in another.

duszek
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by duszek » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:43 am

Time is a concept that is not absolutely necessary but it facilitates understanding.

How did time come into being ?

People observed that certain things occur regularly, like the sun that rises and sets, or the rooster that makes a wake-up call.
So they used these occurrances to make appointments.

It was possible to meet at a certain place when the shadow of a tree moved from point A to point B.

Later on sun-clockes were painted on the ground and sand-clocks invented.

What an atomic clock measures is not exactly the time but the disintegration of radioactive material (if I suppose correctly).

So the term "time" is an intermediate (or intermediary perhaps) term, like money.

Instead of saying "so and so many sand-clock turns" we say "so and so many minutes".
Instead of saying one apple for one egg we say one apple one shilling or dollar and one egg also one shilling or dollar.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:39 am

duszek wrote:In a lecture about Einstein it was mentioned that atomic clocks had been used to show that time goes more quickly in the mountains and more slowly in low areas.
Probably because the latter ones are closer to the center of the earth and therefore the force of gravitation is weaker.

Do people in the mountains live and move more quickly ?

How can time "move" more quickly ?
Time is relative to velocity.
Mountains move more quickly than the lowlands, because the earth is a revolving sphere.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:40 am

Impenitent wrote:1. people on mountains are subject to more gravity... they have further to fall- and while they are falling (especially if they grab hold of their uncle), their relative speed increases...

2. swiss rockets

-Imp

of course you can just have fun and time flies

People on mountains are subject to less gravity, as they are further away from the centre of gravity.

duszek
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by duszek » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:03 am

But if we take a sun-clock for instance then the centre of gravitation does not matter.
The sun does not rise and set more quickly in the mountains than on the beach, does it ?
So the shadows get longer and shorter in the same way.

An atomic clock measures the disintegration of radioactive material, I suppose, could it be caesium ?
Does caesium disintegrate faster in the mountains than on the beach ?

Ginkgo
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:16 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
duszek wrote:In a lecture about Einstein it was mentioned that atomic clocks had been used to show that time goes more quickly in the mountains and more slowly in low areas.
Probably because the latter ones are closer to the center of the earth and therefore the force of gravitation is weaker.

Do people in the mountains live and move more quickly ?

How can time "move" more quickly ?
Time is relative to velocity.
Mountains move more quickly than the lowlands, because the earth is a revolving sphere.
Yes,time is relative to velocity and this can be explained in terms of special relativity, but when it comes to height above seal level general relativity has to be taken into account.

duszek
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by duszek » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:25 am

Velocity (or speed) is defined by time.
Time is one of the defining elements.

It is for example 100 miles per hour.

Instead of time we could take sunsets and also express velocity:

I move 10 miles per 3 sunsets.

Ginkgo
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:49 am

duszek wrote:Velocity (or speed) is defined by time.
Time is one of the defining elements.

It is for example 100 miles per hour.

Instead of time we could take sunsets and also express velocity:

I move 10 miles per 3 sunsets.

In relation to your original question. Yes, people on mountains live and more more quickly than people living at sea level.It all depend on the reference frame. People on mountains who live and more more quickly don't notice the difference because their metabolism also keeps pace with faster time.

The important point is there is not absolute time, regardless how we choose to measure it.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:49 am

Ginkgo wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
duszek wrote:In a lecture about Einstein it was mentioned that atomic clocks had been used to show that time goes more quickly in the mountains and more slowly in low areas.
Probably because the latter ones are closer to the center of the earth and therefore the force of gravitation is weaker.

Do people in the mountains live and move more quickly ?

How can time "move" more quickly ?
Time is relative to velocity.
Mountains move more quickly than the lowlands, because the earth is a revolving sphere.
Yes,time is relative to velocity and this can be explained in terms of special relativity, but when it comes to height above seal level general relativity has to be taken into account.
What is the difference?

Ginkgo
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:59 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
What is the difference?
Perhaps the best way to look at this is in terms of GPS. Don't ask me to come up with the mathematics, but GPS systems need to balance out the effects of general and special relativity in order to remain accurate. I am sure wikipedia would have something on this if your are interested.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:31 pm

Ginkgo wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
What is the difference?
Perhaps the best way to look at this is in terms of GPS. Don't ask me to come up with the mathematics, but GPS systems need to balance out the effects of general and special relativity in order to remain accurate. I am sure wikipedia would have something on this if your are interested.
In other words what you are saying is irrelevant, or you don't understand it.
If there is anything in what I said above that is incorrect or is affected by the difference between general and special, then let me know.

Ginkgo
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Re: Speed of time ?

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:29 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
What is the difference?
Perhaps the best way to look at this is in terms of GPS. Don't ask me to come up with the mathematics, but GPS systems need to balance out the effects of general and special relativity in order to remain accurate. I am sure wikipedia would have something on this if your are interested.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: In other words what you are saying is irrelevant, or you don't understand it.
If there is anything in what I said above that is incorrect or is affected by the difference between general and special, then let me know.
No, it is actually relevant. I found this very good explanation:

Einsteins Special and General Relativity in Everyday Life.

But in a relativistic world, things are not simple. The satellite clocks are moving at 14,000 km/hr in orbits that circle the Earth twice per day, much faster than clocks on the surface of the Earth, and Einstein's theory of special relativity says that rapidly moving clocks tick more slowly, by about seven microseconds (millionths of a second) per day.

Also, the orbiting clocks are 20,000 km above the Earth, and experience gravity that is four times weaker than that on the ground. Einstein's general relativity theory says that gravity curves space and time, resulting in a tendency for the orbiting clocks to tick slightly faster, by about 45 microseconds per day. The net result is that time on a GPS satellite clock advances faster than a clock on the ground by about 38 microseconds per day.

This is the relevant bit from the physics website. In fact you can find this information on any physics website.

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