do you exist in physics

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Ginkgo
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by Ginkgo » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:41 pm

Nibbana wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
Nibbana wrote:I'm afraid physics can't apply to consciousness. it's not matter or energy.
I tend to agree, but science doesn't acknowledge dualistic explanations for consciousness.

Dualistic explanations?
Yes, but unfortunately it would take a long time to outline all the dualist theories for consciousness. Descartes is probably the most familiar and possibly most famous dualist when ii comes to the mind/body problem. Descartes claimed the world consists of two separate and distinct substances. Namely, the mind and the body. For the purposes of this argument the brain is regarded as a physical substance.

Basically, Descartes is telling us that the body has particular properties, e.g., it is extended while the mind has completely different properties, e.g., it is non-physical and lacks extension. Because the mind is non-physical it cannot be studied by science. In fact science tells us that the mind is physical so the dualists are creating an additional category that is not needed.

surreptitious57
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:11 pm

Consciousness is produced by the brain which is physical so it is the product of matter

So it cannot therefore exist in isolation which is to say that it cannot exist without a brain

Everything known to exist in the observable Universe is physical so consciousness must be also

This must be so for if it was non physical then it would not be actually possible to prove its existence

So the problem is not that consciousness is non physical but that the definition of physical is too restricting

So it should be re defined as that which can be objectively verified not just that which has property or dimension

For under that definition then consciousness can be legitimately regarded as a physical entity just like every thing else

jackles
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by jackles » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:45 pm

Consciousness could be regarded as a dimension al reaction between physics or locality and what existed before physics which is nonlocality. So consciousness could be described as a quantum dimensional reaction. Its definitly reaction as seen from a local point of view.

Ginkgo
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:47 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:Consciousness is produced by the brain which is physical so it is the product of matter
This is what the materialists tell us.
surreptitious57 wrote:
So it cannot therefore exist in isolation which is to say that it cannot exist without a brain
Yes. Seems like a logical consequence
surreptitious57 wrote:
Everything known to exist in the observable Universe is physical so consciousness must be also
You are definitely on the scientific side of the fence.
surreptitious57 wrote: This must be so for if it was non physical then it would not be actually possible to prove its existence
Seems to be the case.
surreptitious57 wrote:
So the problem is not that consciousness is non physical but that the definition of physical is too restricting
Not as restrictive as materialist explanations for consciousness.
surreptitious wrote: So it should be re defined as that which can be objectively verified not just that which has property or dimension
That would make a lot of dualists very unhappy"
surreptitious57 wrote: For under that definition then consciousness can be legitimately regarded as a physical entity just like every thing else
That's not a problem for science. It ignores dualist explanations for consciousness

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Rilx
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by Rilx » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:07 pm

jackles wrote:Yep that is the question do you exist in physics. And im talking about the you as consciouness thats reading this question.
As a conscious person I navigate in the world by the content of my consciousness, not by its physical form. From the viewpoint of consciousness the physical form is a complex multi-level structure of symbols, metaphors, etc, which I have learned to interprete to represent reality. At its lowest (mostly unconscious) level the structure contains motor functions which move my muscles.

So it's all physical, like both map and territory are physical. The interpretation appears as a hard problem but I don't see that it would require any elements we don't already know - let alone non-physical.

jackles
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by jackles » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:32 am

There are three dimensions four including time. which move to be in existance all having size are these dimensions contained in an unmoving sizeless dimension called consciousness.

cirin
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by cirin » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:47 pm

Nibbana wrote:I'm afraid physics can't apply to consciousness. it's not matter or energy.
No, it can and should. In this video, 12min. summarizes the concept of modern harmonious worldview, which provides answers to these and many other questions. It's time to move from proclamations to a reasonable understanding of life and begin to live this understanding ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDidxZucGw8

Mic84
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by Mic84 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:43 am

I don't exist in physics.

thedoc
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by thedoc » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:27 am

Mic84 wrote:I don't exist in physics.

Wrong, a computer and the internet, and this forum is all physics, and I see your post, therefor you do exist, at least as a post on a forum.

Nibbana
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by Nibbana » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:04 am

cirin wrote:
Nibbana wrote:I'm afraid physics can't apply to consciousness. it's not matter or energy.
No, it can and should. In this video, 12min. summarizes the concept of modern harmonious worldview, which provides answers to these and many other questions. It's time to move from proclamations to a reasonable understanding of life and begin to live this understanding ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDidxZucGw8
religion is a belief,not a proof. so it's not physics. your religion may apply to consciousness if you can prove God is real.

jackles
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by jackles » Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:46 pm

The thing that dosnt exist in physics is the photons frame of reference its called nonlocality.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:17 am

jackles wrote:The thing that dosnt exist in physics is the photons frame of reference its called nonlocality.
Newtonian Physics yes but Advanced Consciousness Physics i'd say has everything to do with frame of references.

jackles
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by jackles » Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:40 am

Physics = something as a locality. Nonlocality = no thing. surely

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:21 pm

jackles wrote:Physics = something as a locality. Nonlocality = no thing. surely
Hmm yes I suppose. But consciousness still manifests itself in a physical location (such as out of body experiences) so still think there should be a branch of physics devoted to it. Perhaps "Advanced Consciousness physics" is a bad label though, ACP rings like American Clown Posse.

jackles
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Re: do you exist in physics

Post by jackles » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:32 pm

Sounds right trixie. In my opinion the photon ref frame is the mover and is the relativity between moving objects in the event and that has to be the consciouness in all observers brains.

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