Are we eternal? (Eternal Recurrence)

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Ezra
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Re: Are we eternal? (Eternal Recurrence)

Post by Ezra » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:46 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:07 pm

But if that's so (and hard-nosed empiricism surely takes us there), then what is the empirical explanation for us having any "sense of eternity," or even being able to formulate the concept in the first place? We have just said that "real eternality" is impossible, from a scientific perspective: so we cannot have gotten the idea itself from the "empirical."

So why and how do we even know what "eternity" is?
It’s possible that we don’t. Human beings have a hard time conceptualising it, let alone defining it. In fact, we have a hard if not impossible time defining anything satisfactorily, which is why arguably no philosophical question has ever been ultimately answered to everyone’s satisfaction. We simply have satisfying questions and paradoxes to play with and delight in over tea, coffee, a beer, glass of wine, toke or tab.

“Eternity” is an attempt to grasp at the unknown; a human drive to lockdown, understand, pigeonhole. And a failure to do so.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Are we eternal? (Eternal Recurrence)

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:13 am

Ezra wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:46 am
Immanuel Can wrote:
Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:07 pm

But if that's so (and hard-nosed empiricism surely takes us there), then what is the empirical explanation for us having any "sense of eternity," or even being able to formulate the concept in the first place? We have just said that "real eternality" is impossible, from a scientific perspective: so we cannot have gotten the idea itself from the "empirical."

So why and how do we even know what "eternity" is?
It’s possible that we don’t.
In a sense, yes -- if by "know" we mean, "know comprehensively." How could any finite entity "know" eternity in that way? We don't even know the oceans on our own planet in that way...let alone the universe, or time itself.

But in another sense, no, it's not possible we don't. By this I mean "know as a concept," not "know comprehensively." For indisputably, we DO have the concept, even if we don't have comprehensive knowledge of all it implies. We use the concept pretty routinely, actually.

My question is really how we got any concept that has absolutely no empirical reality from which we could possibly derive it by observation.

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attofishpi
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Re: Are we eternal? (Eternal Recurrence)

Post by attofishpi » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:36 am

therammo wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:50 pm
If we live in a multiverse that indicates eternal inflation, does it mean we actually live over and over again the same life?
I fucking hope not.

KelseyR
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Re: Are we eternal? (Eternal Recurrence)

Post by KelseyR » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:03 pm

Your question isn't stupid at all. You simply lack the training to understand how it works. In short, there are three postulated recurrence types: stagnant, erosive, and balanced. They all deal with the amount of change between a current event and its replacement. Stagnant recurrence is virtually pure repetition of information. Erosive recurrence is virtually pure innovation of information. Only a balanced type is viable because it avoids both systemic degradation and a queuing problem in excessive wait times between connected events. This means that there is nothing to fear. There is no horrific and meaningless replaying of events over and over. It's more like worthwhile exploration.

Richter018
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Re: Are we eternal? (Eternal Recurrence)

Post by Richter018 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:45 pm

Mystics, poets, have said everything is eternal YET time is illusory, ephemeral, a dream. Relativity suggests this as well, a block universe YET at the quantum level the particle doesn't exist until it's observed. So eternal recurrence could only be a recurrence of consciousness/soul into an illusory, eternal, STATIC universe i.e. the universe doesn't recur, only mind/soul/consciousness can recur; only a transcendental noumenon can "recur" into the determined, static universe. It seems "free will" requires a multiverse but multiverse theory is no scientific theory at all, it's a mere hypothesis.

I'm obsessed with the idea that the Monad/Absolute's creation is that of an illusory hierarchy of Beings which seem to evolve towards the Monad...but again, creation is illusory. The Monad is in truth all that exists. The Hindus have this fascinating idea of "Isvara" which translates to the pinnacle of the illusory evolution of the Monad i.e. God incarnate. Imagine a solipsistic being who is the summation of the evolution of all beings...that has reincarnated as every being who has ever existed...and since there are no more incarnations left to experience...it recurs into the same life over and over again for all eternity. In ways it parallels the Lucifer myth: a being closest to a transcendental God yet rebels and takes on a terrestrial, illusory form..."God of this world".

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