Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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skakos
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Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Post by skakos » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:09 pm

Image

We may think we know where memory is stored, but we do not. Science has not figured that out yet. We have pinpointed areas of the brain which play a ROLE in the memory formation/ management (like the hippocampus), but we do not know the EXACT place where memories are stored. [see. Francis Crick, "Memory - From Mind to Molecules" by Larry R. Squire and Eric R. Kandel]

There are cases of animal experiments when a large portion of the brain was removed (and the part where scientists thought the memories were stored, according to the EEGs) but the animals continued to remember what they have learned! A recent example of such an experiment to its extreme was conducted with a worm: after the worm was decapitated, it grew a new head and still remembered all it had learned! [http://jeb.biologists.org/content/early ... 9.abstract, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ories.html]

From Bergson to modern experiments, I believe the memory problem is one of the key problems that will lead to a paradigm shift in the modern materialistic neurology...

The brain is most probable just a reciever...

Ginkgo
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Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Post by Ginkgo » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:41 am

skakos wrote:Image

We may think we know where memory is stored, but we do not. Science has not figured that out yet. We have pinpointed areas of the brain which play a ROLE in the memory formation/ management (like the hippocampus), but we do not know the EXACT place where memories are stored. [see. Francis Crick, "Memory - From Mind to Molecules" by Larry R. Squire and Eric R. Kandel]

There are cases of animal experiments when a large portion of the brain was removed (and the part where scientists thought the memories were stored, according to the EEGs) but the animals continued to remember what they have learned! A recent example of such an experiment to its extreme was conducted with a worm: after the worm was decapitated, it grew a new head and still remembered all it had learned! [http://jeb.biologists.org/content/early ... 9.abstract, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ories.html]

From Bergson to modern experiments, I believe the memory problem is one of the key problems that will lead to a paradigm shift in the modern materialistic neurology...

The brain is most probable just a reciever...



It's probably both.

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_brain_theory

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skakos
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Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Post by skakos » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:25 pm

Interesting idea. I haven't read it in whole, but I will.
Could you summarize it?

Ginkgo
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Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Post by Ginkgo » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:50 pm

skakos wrote:Interesting idea. I haven't read it in whole, but I will.
Could you summarize it?
I will try.

The first thing to remember is that this is fringe science, so many physicists and philosophers would disagree with the following.

Basically the idea is that the brain operate like a hologram and the universe operate like a hologram. If we accept the analogy then it is fairly easy to argue that both the brain and the universe interact with each other.

The use of the world,"hologram" is only to be used as an analogy, but it is the best analogy they could come up with. I am assuming that quantum mechanics has taken up this idea are found that it fits well with the idea of quantum consciousness. But that's another story.

By hologram they mean reality is 'fluid', perhaps a better way of explaining it would in terms of a quantum wave function, and naturally terms such as superposition and non-locality come into play. In some sense the image on a hologram is non-local and wave like. I am not an expert in holographic images so you will have to take the following with a grain of salt. If you drop a particular type of holographic image, you can pick and any piece of the shattered image and it will contain the whole image. But again, this doesn't apply to all types of holographic images.

The reason I am saying this is because I can see an analogy between the removal of worms head and the memory still being retained by the organism. In other words, its memory is not restricted to just one location.

As I said before the idea of a holographic brain leads to the refinement of the idea in terms of the brain carrying out quantum functions. In some sense, it can be argued that the physicalists are correct when they see the brain in terms of computer type consciousness. The difference here is that the brain functions like a quantum computer whereby information distributed through the system with all information being retrievable. It is anyone's guess if this information distribution is just restricted to the internal environment.

As I said before, this stuff is very much fringe science, but people such as Hameroff and Penrose take it seriously. Seriously in terms of trying to demonstrate their theory using the scientific method. Anyway that's the best I can come up with. Someone such as yourself may be able to come up with a better explanation.

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Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Post by HexHammer » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:43 pm

There has been many reports over the years that organ transplant recievers will gain new memories, and habbits of eating and smoking.

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Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Post by skakos » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:56 pm

Ginkgo wrote:
skakos wrote:Interesting idea. I haven't read it in whole, but I will.
Could you summarize it?
I will try.

The first thing to remember is that this is fringe science, so many physicists and philosophers would disagree with the following.

Basically the idea is that the brain operate like a hologram and the universe operate like a hologram. If we accept the analogy then it is fairly easy to argue that both the brain and the universe interact with each other.

The use of the world,"hologram" is only to be used as an analogy, but it is the best analogy they could come up with. I am assuming that quantum mechanics has taken up this idea are found that it fits well with the idea of quantum consciousness. But that's another story.

By hologram they mean reality is 'fluid', perhaps a better way of explaining it would in terms of a quantum wave function, and naturally terms such as superposition and non-locality come into play. In some sense the image on a hologram is non-local and wave like. I am not an expert in holographic images so you will have to take the following with a grain of salt. If you drop a particular type of holographic image, you can pick and any piece of the shattered image and it will contain the whole image. But again, this doesn't apply to all types of holographic images.

The reason I am saying this is because I can see an analogy between the removal of worms head and the memory still being retained by the organism. In other words, its memory is not restricted to just one location.

As I said before the idea of a holographic brain leads to the refinement of the idea in terms of the brain carrying out quantum functions. In some sense, it can be argued that the physicalists are correct when they see the brain in terms of computer type consciousness. The difference here is that the brain functions like a quantum computer whereby information distributed through the system with all information being retrievable. It is anyone's guess if this information distribution is just restricted to the internal environment.

As I said before, this stuff is very much fringe science, but people such as Hameroff and Penrose take it seriously. Seriously in terms of trying to demonstrate their theory using the scientific method. Anyway that's the best I can come up with. Someone such as yourself may be able to come up with a better explanation.
Non-locality is something scientists have been researching for years.
And the fact that it is not so popular does make me feel that it is probably right... I know even of Princeton experiments related to consciousness non-locality. And they found out that indeed our mind is not limited into our brain.
The hologram idea is a neat idea of what could be the case. Philosophically it is interesting. Everything is One, we are part of that One, our memories live in everything...

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