How are scintific theories produced?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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mark black
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Post by mark black »

effie,
I failed to mention the book (btw, it's "Metaphysics", translated in english by W.D. Ross)
Intentional or otherwise, this is plaigerism - and to be avoided at all costs. It doesn't detract from your argument in the slightest to quote and reference relevent passages. We all build upon the foundations layed down by others - or, to paraphrase Newton, we all stand on the shoulder of giants. See how that works?

mb.
mickthinks
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Post by mickthinks »

Mark, I don't understand you. effie wrote "Has been concisely expressed by Aristotle many thousand years ago: ..." and then provided the Aristotle quote. That's not plagiarism.

Mick
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Aetixintro
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How are scintific theories produced?

Post by Aetixintro »

Hi

Sorry, I just want to add something. I have inserted the abbreviation, HDM, in a past post. Here is the explanation as given by Encyclopædia Britannica, http://search.eb.com/.
Hypothetico-Deductive Method - Procedure for the construction of a scientific theory that will account for results obtained through direct observation and experimentation and that will, through inference, predict further effects that can then be verified or disproved by empirical evidence derived from other experiments.
Developed by Sir Isaac Newton during the late 17th century (but named at a later date by philosophers of science), the hypothetico-deductive method assumes that properly formed theories arise as generalizations from observable data that they are intended to explain. These hypotheses, however, cannot be conclusively established until the consequences that logically follow from them are verified through additional observations and experiments. In conformity with René Descartes' rationalism, the hypothetico-deductive method treats theory as a deductive system in which particular empirical phenomena are explained by relating them back to general principles and definitions. The method, however, abandons the Cartesian claim that those principles and definitions are self-evident and valid; it assumes that their validity is determined only by the exact light their consequences throw on previously unexplained phenomena or on actual scientific problems.
Here is also a link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetic ... tive_model.
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Psychonaut
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Post by Psychonaut »

Certainly a puzzler. There's no plagiarism, so what's Mark seeing?

:?
mark black
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Post by mark black »

mickthinks, psycho,
Mb, I agree with your ascertainments regarding science and scientists. These problems that you have noticed are the majot obstacle science has to overcome. Indeed, all those who "become scientists" end up posing the same questions and using the same methods in order to solve these (given)problems. Substantially, the otain the "same langage"and tend to in generally think and act in the same manner. One of the basic questions we have to answer is: why is tis happening and what can we do in order to overcome it?
In my approach, this phenomenon is neither coincidental nor occasional: it has been observed in all sciences in all eras. According to this approach(from which i haven't yet presented even the slightest part) the phenomenon is due to the presence and action of the predominant basic truth. Basic truth is a general opinion regarding the most basic structural elements that compose the object of a science and the role that each of them has. E.g. the basic truth of psychiatry is: Brain is the mid and therefore performs all intellectual faculties. The basic truth of molecular biology is: molecules are the only active biological factor of which the cells are consisted and the only factor with which living cells complete all their activities.
The major mistake of people who wish to serve a normal science, "due to the way in which they are educated"(as posed by Kuhn), is that they uncritically accept the basic truth that is dominant in their science, without knowing its context and without rying to test and improve it. This subconscious acceptance (not choice) leads science to immobility and standardizes scientific activities.
In our book, we have analyzed i) the role that basic truths plays a) in mind, since it is a mental "tool" (or filter) as well as b) in science, where it is the factor which guides all scientific activities and determines the frameworks ithn which science will "move",its goals and its borderlines,
ii) the methods with which it is located, tested and improved, etc.
In general, as far as basic truth is concerned, what we propose is the replacement of uncritical general acceptance by conscious, individual selection. In order for this to happen, each of the individuals that becomes a scientist must be able to locate the basic truth of their science and have the knowledge that is essential in order to test it objectively and improve it.

This idea is not new. Has been concisely expressed by Aristotle many thousand years ago:
"WE must, with a view to the science which we are seeking, first
recount the subjects that should be first discussed. These include
both the other opinions that some have held on the first principles,
and any point besides these that happens to have been overlooked.
For those who wish to get clear of difficulties it is advantageous
to discuss the difficulties well; for the subsequent free play of
thought implies the solution of the previous difficulties, and it is
not possible to untie a knot of which one does not know. But the
difficulty of our thinking points to a 'knot' in the object; for in so
far as our thought is in difficulties, it is in like case with those
who are bound; for in either case it is impossible to go forward.
Hence one should have surveyed all the difficulties beforehand, both
for the purposes we have stated and because people who inquire without
first stating the difficulties are like those who do not know where
they have to go; besides, a man does not otherwise know even whether
he has at any given time found what he is looking for or not; for
the end is not clear to such a man, while to him who has first
discussed the difficulties it is clear. Further, he who has heard
all the contending arguments, as if they were the parties to a case,
must be in a better position for judging."

It's less than clear who the author of the piece in bold is. But it's not effie, is it? It begins: 'In our book...' Clearly, effie has not written a book on the subject so who's words are these?

mb.
effie
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Re: How are scintific theories produced?

Post by effie »

Aetixintro wrote:Hi

Sorry, I just want to add something. I have inserted the abbreviation, HDM, in a past post. Here is the explanation as given by Encyclopædia Britannica, http://search.eb.com/.
Hypothetico-Deductive Method - Procedure for the construction of a scientific theory that will account for results obtained through direct observation and experimentation and that will, through inference, predict further effects that can then be verified or disproved by empirical evidence derived from other experiments.
Developed by Sir Isaac Newton during the late 17th century (but named at a later date by philosophers of science), the hypothetico-deductive method assumes that properly formed theories arise as generalizations from observable data that they are intended to explain. These hypotheses, however, cannot be conclusively established until the consequences that logically follow from them are verified through additional observations and experiments. In conformity with René Descartes' rationalism, the hypothetico-deductive method treats theory as a deductive system in which particular empirical phenomena are explained by relating them back to general principles and definitions. The method, however, abandons the Cartesian claim that those principles and definitions are self-evident and valid; it assumes that their validity is determined only by the exact light their consequences throw on previously unexplained phenomena or on actual scientific problems.
Here is also a link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetic ... tive_model.
First of all, I would like to admit my mistake :-) all I had read about HDM was about P.C. software and not science. I didn't even know that this scientific approach existed....
In general I agree with this approach. My only question is: Can this method be adjusted to meet the needs of every science and be applied systemically and repeatedly? If so, why hasn't it been used by all sciences? Can this method form a precise guideline which can be used by anyone who would like to use it? Is it restricted to the philosophical field or can it be practically applied in every science?
The method I would like to suggest (if I am allowed to :-) ) is prototype, in the sense that it hasn't been expressed verbally in the past, by any science or scientist. In spite of all that, it is used on a daily basis by the theoretical sectors of many normal sciences e.g. by biologists). I don' t claim that it is the only one nor that it is the easiest, but
i) it is the most common- usual, since it is used in every science,
ii) it can be generalized and used by all theoretical sectors and
iii) it can be improved, since all the factors that participate in it can be tested and improved, because they will be brought forward and expressed verbally and precisely. If the quality of a factor is improved, automatically the performance of the procedure is raised.
In fact, the goal is not to present a stereotypic way to produce theories, but to reveal the factors that participate in the theoretical procedure and determine (by means of their quality) the quality of the final outcme,so that anyone can locate, test and improve them. The knowledge of the above will give us a change to improve every theoretical factor and thus improve the effectiveness of the theoretical procedure.
Furthermore, the method is based on the utilization of knowledge and data that already exist. In other words, it shows how we can use what we know in order to find what we do not know. The title of the method is "Reconstitution of a complex theoretical total out of its components". The method is the same which is used in the production of any complex total, adjusted to the needs of the theoretical sector. Tis method is known and ordinary, in the sense that it is used successfully in the production of every complex product, but it has never been expressed verbally so that it can be conciously used.
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Psychonaut
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Post by Psychonaut »

Mark, what book is the highlighted passage from?
effie
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Post by effie »

Mb, I assure you that there is no plagiarism...We have written a book (actually I have helped my mentor- the person who came up with these ideas) to write down his ideas, after he had spent 30 years working on the subject. Naturally, you do not know that this book existed because it is not published in English. That's all :-)
mark black
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Post by mark black »

effie,

You must be shagging this mentor because he certainly doesn't employ you for your writing skills. You don't know how to correctly reference a passage - and because you don't know what HDM is, clearly, he hasn't chosen you for your knowledge of the subject matter either. I don't believe you. See how that works! You've lost credibility.

Here's what I think. I think that you are an only child and this is your first term at university. Your parents have been so very supportive that you have an over inflated sense of your own intelligence - but as an only child, lack the social skills to admit your mistakes or to lie convincingly - or to make a sound choice between the two in any given situation. You are enthusiastic about the subject, but as yet lack the knowledge to have gained a truly sophisticated understanding - and this proposal of yours is a premature attempt to write something useful on the subject. Far be it from me to pour cold water on the fire of your youthful enthusiasm, but read, read, read, read, read.

mb.
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Psychonaut
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Post by Psychonaut »

Is it that time of the month Mark?

There is no credibility lost here except your own, or would be had you any left.

I am left in absolute shock after reading what you have to say here. Who would actually desire such a public humiliation, and why?!

Pathetic.
mark black
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Post by mark black »

Psychonaut,

I never suffer fools gladly as you should be aware. But it doesn't suprise me that you defend someone I criticise, even though she treats us like we are idiots - firstly by plaigerism, and then by lying about it. You're still bitter and twisted that I don't stand for your shit. I advise you both to get over yourselves.

mb.
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Psychonaut
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Post by Psychonaut »

Grow up.
effie
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Post by effie »

Mark,

1. There is no plaigerism- and that's not negotiable! You can search all you want, but you cannot find an external source for my posts... because there isn't such a source!
2. You are right, I should have known what HDM was. I will follow your advice and keep reading (even if we are not obliged to know about all the approaches that have already been proposed during many centuries!).Besides, according to my mentor, if among these approaches there was a complete and effective one we wouldn't have to keep trying! We would use this approach and produce well founded theories. My mentor who, among other things, is also a clinical doctor) claims that when a diagnosis is proved correct, all other diagnoses are eliminated (that's a metaphor...) :-)
3. The psychological profile you tried to present... 100% wrong. You see, I have three brothers (not an only child) and I have graduated from university ( I am a psychologist- and I thought I was the only one in this forum :-) )
4. Since there is no question of plaigerism, can we continue with our conversation? I would like to read your comments on what I have written. You seem to be able to make very accurate observations (at least when it comes to science) and I would like to read your opinion. Do you accept that each normal science is founded on a basic truth?
5. The ideas I am trying to propose are not mine...I have told you that I have a mentor, who came up with these ideas. I helped him write them in a book (in Greek) and now I "use" the forum in order to see how people respond to these ideas. So simple!
mark black
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Post by mark black »

Psychonaut,

Grow up! Wow. Good comeback. I'm devastated.

mb.
mark black
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Post by mark black »

effie,

Okay. Subject closed. I'll review your writing and get back to you tomorrow.

mb.
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