darwin was wrong

[jetsetjason]

after 14 million years of natural selection, humans should be completely ruthless, and they are not, therefore, darwin, got it wrong

something else is going on, any ideas ?

[mark black]

I have an idea - read a book now and then.

A great one on this very subject is 'the selfish gene' by Richard Dawkins. Or, for an overview of evolution, and a great read, try 'Darwin's Dangerous Idea' by Daniel C. Dennett.

You will find that natural selection can just as well favour cooperation by allowing animals that cooperate to survive, to breed, to pass on the tendency to cooperate.

[jetsetjason]

i have read the selfish gene, and lots more, on darwinian theory,dawkins is still wrong

[Arising_uk]

after 14 million years of natural selection, humans should be completely ruthless, and they are not, therefore, darwin, got it wrong
something else is going on, any ideas ?

If you read The Origin of Species you'll find that Darwin was concerned with physical shapes and how they could arise from purely physical processes. Where he does discuss 'moral behaviour' he points out that the only reason why the Human Primate is the pre-eminent mammal is because of their ability to co-operate so they've evolved to become less ruthless amongst themselves to survive in a 'ruthless' environment. At least thats my undstanding.
a_uk

[jetsetjason]

tit for tat, but emma darwin gave to those who could not give back, and she had 10 children

hello emma, goodby charles

[mark black]

It is utterly idiotic of you to say that Darwin and Dawkins are wrong, solely on the basis that you can't see how alturistic behaviour evolved.

I've explained and you ignored it. Allow me to re-iterate:

You will find that natural selection can just as well favour cooperation by allowing animals that cooperate to survive, to breed, to pass on the tendency to cooperate.

If you had done the reading you pretend to, you'd know this.

[Pluto]

I've just read a book by Jeremy Rifkin called 'The Biotech Century' there is a superb chapter called something like 'Re-thinking nature' here he talks how ideas of nature correspond with economic ideas. So if I was a poor factory worker at the beginning of the industrial revolution I would be unhappy about my situation but then along comes Darwin with his idea of nature and says to me - look its natural that you should be here, etc. It's very interesting because it describes how both in a way are constructions designed to strengthen each other. So as we leave the machine age for the bio-tech age another idea of nature is required that suits the latter. An economic idea carries more weight if it can be shown to be natural or nature's plan. Fascinating. It really is the world as idea.

[mark black]

Only, humankind is mentally ill. Psychotic to be precise. Social Psychosis - a progressive and terminal condition.

[Pluto]

Of course there are problems...but such richness and potential also.

[Pac Man]

Have you really dismissed the life's work of Charles Darwin in one sentence or are you deliberately trivializing it for a reaction?

humans should be completely ruthless

Well, not necessarily. Ruthlessness isn’t the only thing that evolution depends upon. Protection and wellbeing, essential for survival, comes from compassion. Besides, we ARE ruthless aren’t we?

One thing is clear, after 14 million years, the rules of survival have become very complicated and to say we should be exclusively one thing or another is just too simple.

I’m new by the way, I’m Stuart. Hello.

[jetsetjason]

natural selection happens but one can not predict the outcome, due to chaos , in the system, things change, but it is not all logical, for example, the sexual selection peacocks etc. etc.

chaos and natural selection = reality ?

[Gustaf]

So if I was a poor factory worker at the beginning of the industrial revolution I would be unhappy about my situation but then along comes Darwin with his idea of nature and says to me - look its natural that you should be here, etc.

Darwin never said this, or anything like this. The author of the book you are reading knows squat, take the book to the bookstore and demand your money back, tell them that the book is no good.

[Pluto]

Okay I will thanks.

[jetsetjason]

darwin was talking about things over the long term, perhaps it is natural that bored factory workers organise into unions, create political force or decide to shoot the boss to get revenge ?

is 'natural justice' meant to be, i presume darwin would have something to say about that...

[Pluto]

I'm more interested in how 'power' interpret Darwin.