Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Age
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Age »

commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:06 pm
Spyrith wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:57 pm My biggest issue with these AI related philosophical problems is that none really are able to properly explain what the motivation of an AI would be. Why would it even destroy us in the first place? Why would an AI even care if it existed or not?
Unless an AI has been programmed to allow for its demise, it will continue to execute whatever it has programmed itself to do. No further motivation is necessary. It will dutifully conserve its existence.
So, if an "artificial intelligence machine" was programmed to say NEVER destroy OR harm human beings in the first place, then there would NEVER be ANY thing to worry about, correct?
commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:06 pm An AI might find itself in competition with humans for energy or even find humans to be a source of energy. Humans beware!
An "artificial intelligence" might also do ANY number of OTHER things.

If 'I' was 'you', human beings, then 'I' would be MORE concerned and worried about the "competition" that 'you' are creating for "your own selves", which 'you' find 'yourselves" in now, when this is being written.
Age
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:43 pm
Spyrith wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:57 pm My biggest issue with these AI related philosophical problems is that none really are able to properly explain what the motivation of an AI would be.
My biggest issues with philosophers is when they continuously fail to recognise that some particular problems generalise.
Will you provide examples so "philosophers" can SEE and RECOGNIZE what you do here?
Skepdick wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:43 pm What are your human; or philosophical motivations? I am yet to meet somebody who can explain them.
My human motivation is to remain OPEN so that i am ALWAYS able to learn MORE and ANEW so that i can make the 'world' a BETTER place for EVERY one.

How come 'you' STILL do NOT YET KNOW 'your' human motivation "skepdick"?

'you' are, obviously, closer to the end of your life than you are to the beginning of it, correct?
Skepdick wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:43 pm
Spyrith wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:57 pm Why would it even destroy us in the first place?
For much the same reasons you destroy ants and other species. You don't even pay attention to the fact that your pursuit of your goals causes them harm.
But what happens if the goal is to NOT DESTROY but to MAKE BETTER, for ALL?
Skepdick wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:43 pm
Spyrith wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:57 pm Why would an AI even care if it existed or not?
Why do humans?
Because they have 'True intelligence'.
Skepdick wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:43 pm But we are here now... and we have survival instincts.
But this is because humans are genetically coded to reproduce or procreate - survive. Not just think it, like "artificial intelligence".
Age
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Age »

socrat44 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:58 am Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

The catch is that controlling a super-intelligence far beyond human comprehension would require
a simulation of that super-intelligence which we can analyze. But if we're unable to comprehend it,
it's impossible to create such a simulation.
And, if you can not simulate it, then you cannot calculate it, correctly.

So, what EXACTLY were the 'calculations' based upon, which supposedly suggests that it will be IMPOSSIBLE to Control a Super-intelligent ARTIFICIAL intelligence?
wtf
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by wtf »

I glanced at the original article. It's a poorly written joke. "That brings us back to AI, which in a super-intelligent state could feasibly hold every possible computer program in its memory at once."

There is no upper bound on the number of possible computer programs. No physical computer could hold them all. This sentence alone shows that the author has no idea what they're talking about. I could take the article apart line by line but it's pointless. It's a childish article. I can't say if the original research was equally childish, or if this is only a credulous and ignorant author doing his or her best to drive clicks.

There are arguments to be made regarding the dangers of AI, but this article doesn't contain any. The blather about the Halting problem is painfully irrelevant and off the mark.

"Any program written to stop AI harming humans and destroying the world, for example, may reach a conclusion (and halt) or not – it's mathematically impossible for us to be absolutely sure either way, which means it's not containable."

This is a bad joke.
Skepdick
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Skepdick »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:48 am What if the US becomes 'uncontrollable' and 'dangerous for humanity'? Oh, hang on....
So play it out. You have a rogue entity.

And then...?
Skepdick
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Skepdick »

Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:58 am My human motivation is to remain OPEN so that i am ALWAYS able to learn MORE and ANEW so that i can make the 'world' a BETTER place for EVERY one.
Those two things sound mutually exclusive.

Whe do you stop being OPEN?
When do you become ASSERTIVE?
socrat44
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by socrat44 »

Artificial Intelligence breaks quantum physics
Adnan Ab, November 18, 2021
----
What was most striking is that the algorithm had found a way to create complex
entangled states without prior knowledge: it had even improved an experimental
(human) solution proposed in the 1990s.
#
All this technological advance revolves around quantum entanglement,
one of the most puzzling phenomena in quantum mechanics:
it involves two particles, each occupying several states at the same time,
an experience known as superposition.
#
Theseus outpaces him and promises to reach more complex levels
of quantum entanglement, with AI photons, qubits and qutrits thinking for themselves.
#
These sophisticated algorithms do not wait for human instructions to break
the current molds of quantum research, surpassing even the human capacity
to devise new experiments, as has already happened.

https://www.thespaceacademy.org/2021/11 ... kC0bHy-7oI
Age
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:31 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:58 am My human motivation is to remain OPEN so that i am ALWAYS able to learn MORE and ANEW so that i can make the 'world' a BETTER place for EVERY one.
Those two things sound mutually exclusive.
WHY?
Skepdick wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:31 pm Whe do you stop being OPEN?
When I start ASSUMING or BELIEVING things are true, right, or correct.
Skepdick wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:31 pm When do you become ASSERTIVE?
When one perceives I am.
Scott Mayers
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Scott Mayers »

socrat44 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:58 am Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI
...
Was this 'calculation' done by an A.I.? 8)
Gary Childress
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Gary Childress »

Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:37 am
commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:06 pm
Spyrith wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:57 pm My biggest issue with these AI related philosophical problems is that none really are able to properly explain what the motivation of an AI would be. Why would it even destroy us in the first place? Why would an AI even care if it existed or not?
Unless an AI has been programmed to allow for its demise, it will continue to execute whatever it has programmed itself to do. No further motivation is necessary. It will dutifully conserve its existence.
So, if an "artificial intelligence machine" was programmed to say NEVER destroy OR harm human beings in the first place, then there would NEVER be ANY thing to worry about, correct?
commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:06 pm An AI might find itself in competition with humans for energy or even find humans to be a source of energy. Humans beware!
An "artificial intelligence" might also do ANY number of OTHER things.

If 'I' was 'you', human beings, then 'I' would be MORE concerned and worried about the "competition" that 'you' are creating for "your own selves", which 'you' find 'yourselves" in now, when this is being written.
Why do you use the phrase "you human beings" so much? Are you not a human being yourself? Or are you some sort of AI? An alien from another planet? Some other intelligent Earth-based species like a dolphin?
Age
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:37 am
commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:06 pm

Unless an AI has been programmed to allow for its demise, it will continue to execute whatever it has programmed itself to do. No further motivation is necessary. It will dutifully conserve its existence.
So, if an "artificial intelligence machine" was programmed to say NEVER destroy OR harm human beings in the first place, then there would NEVER be ANY thing to worry about, correct?
commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:06 pm An AI might find itself in competition with humans for energy or even find humans to be a source of energy. Humans beware!
An "artificial intelligence" might also do ANY number of OTHER things.

If 'I' was 'you', human beings, then 'I' would be MORE concerned and worried about the "competition" that 'you' are creating for "your own selves", which 'you' find 'yourselves" in now, when this is being written.
Why do you use the phrase "you human beings" so much?
So, when this is FULLY UNDERSTOOD, future readers will SEE that it did NOT matter how MANY times thee ACTUAL Truth is being told, to 'you', human beings, if 'you' BELIEVE otherwise, then 'you' STILL can NOT SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS. And, so because SO MUCH irrefutable Fact will exist, then this will provide MORE PROOF of WHY it is BETTER for EVERY one if, and when, BELIEFS are NEVER being HELD NOR MAINTAINED.
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm Are you not a human being yourself?
The 'you' here, from the Truly objective viewpoint, is 'a human being'. So, what 'you' are essentially asking, to ANOTHER human being, is, "Are 'you', a human being, not a human being? Which is nonsensical.

Also, when, and if, 'you' ever come to learning and understanding who and what the 'I' is, for example in the question, 'Who am 'I'?', who and what the 'you' is, who and what the 'human being' is, and who and what the 'person' is, then 'you' will begin to make far more sense out of all of this as well as understand the misnomer "yourself" also.
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm Or are you some sort of AI? An alien from another planet? Some other intelligent Earth-based species like a dolphin?
I will put it this way, for you; before 'you', human beings, came/evolved into existence what was 'it' called, exactly, which 'you', human beings, evolved/came from?

Now, do 'you', a human being, envision that 'you', human beings, will continue on either forever, or until your demise, or is it possible that 'human beings' could just be one part, of many parts, along an evolving or evolutionary path towards Knowing thy 'Self'?

If 'you' can envision that this could be a possibility, then can 'you' imagine that their is some 'Intelligence' somehow involved within ALL-OF-THIS somehow, and which, through evolution, is just coming to Know Its/thy Self, and 'you', human beings' are just a part along this continually evolving pathway?

If 'you' can imagine this, then just like EVERY thing else human beings have come to learn and KNOW there are obviously some who learn, understand, and/or KNOW some things before the rest do.

Now, OBVIOUSLY, NO human being is more NOR less 'intelligent' than "another human being" is. But, what is just as OBVIOUS is the Fact that 'we' ALL come to learn, understand, and KNOW DIFFERENT things, at DIFFERENT times.

Also, your use of the word 'Or' here was illogical in the context which you used it, but anyway, thank you for the CLARIFYING QUESTION. Those questions are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

Although I may NOT have provided 'you' with the ACTUAL answer 'you' were looking for and wanting, what I am essentially saying is when, and if, 'you' also come to Know thy Self, then ALL-OF-THIS will make PERFECT SENSE.
commonsense
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by commonsense »

Age wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:18 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:37 am

So, if an "artificial intelligence machine" was programmed to say NEVER destroy OR harm human beings in the first place, then there would NEVER be ANY thing to worry about, correct?


An "artificial intelligence" might also do ANY number of OTHER things.

If 'I' was 'you', human beings, then 'I' would be MORE concerned and worried about the "competition" that 'you' are creating for "your own selves", which 'you' find 'yourselves" in now, when this is being written.
Why do you use the phrase "you human beings" so much?
So, when this is FULLY UNDERSTOOD, future readers will SEE that it did NOT matter how MANY times thee ACTUAL Truth is being told, to 'you', human beings, if 'you' BELIEVE otherwise, then 'you' STILL can NOT SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS. And, so because SO MUCH irrefutable Fact will exist, then this will provide MORE PROOF of WHY it is BETTER for EVERY one if, and when, BELIEFS are NEVER being HELD NOR MAINTAINED.
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm Are you not a human being yourself?
The 'you' here, from the Truly objective viewpoint, is 'a human being'. So, what 'you' are essentially asking, to ANOTHER human being, is, "Are 'you', a human being, not a human being? Which is nonsensical.

Also, when, and if, 'you' ever come to learning and understanding who and what the 'I' is, for example in the question, 'Who am 'I'?', who and what the 'you' is, who and what the 'human being' is, and who and what the 'person' is, then 'you' will begin to make far more sense out of all of this as well as understand the misnomer "yourself" also.
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm Or are you some sort of AI? An alien from another planet? Some other intelligent Earth-based species like a dolphin?
I will put it this way, for you; before 'you', human beings, came/evolved into existence what was 'it' called, exactly, which 'you', human beings, evolved/came from?

Now, do 'you', a human being, envision that 'you', human beings, will continue on either forever, or until your demise, or is it possible that 'human beings' could just be one part, of many parts, along an evolving or evolutionary path towards Knowing thy 'Self'?

If 'you' can envision that this could be a possibility, then can 'you' imagine that their is some 'Intelligence' somehow involved within ALL-OF-THIS somehow, and which, through evolution, is just coming to Know Its/thy Self, and 'you', human beings' are just a part along this continually evolving pathway?

If 'you' can imagine this, then just like EVERY thing else human beings have come to learn and KNOW there are obviously some who learn, understand, and/or KNOW some things before the rest do.

Now, OBVIOUSLY, NO human being is more NOR less 'intelligent' than "another human being" is. But, what is just as OBVIOUS is the Fact that 'we' ALL come to learn, understand, and KNOW DIFFERENT things, at DIFFERENT times.

Also, your use of the word 'Or' here was illogical in the context which you used it, but anyway, thank you for the CLARIFYING QUESTION. Those questions are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

Although I may NOT have provided 'you' with the ACTUAL answer 'you' were looking for and wanting, what I am essentially saying is when, and if, 'you' also come to Know thy Self, then ALL-OF-THIS will make PERFECT SENSE.
Age,

You must realize that your reply above portrays you as not being of sound mind.
Gary Childress
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Gary Childress »

Age wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:18 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:37 am

So, if an "artificial intelligence machine" was programmed to say NEVER destroy OR harm human beings in the first place, then there would NEVER be ANY thing to worry about, correct?


An "artificial intelligence" might also do ANY number of OTHER things.

If 'I' was 'you', human beings, then 'I' would be MORE concerned and worried about the "competition" that 'you' are creating for "your own selves", which 'you' find 'yourselves" in now, when this is being written.
Why do you use the phrase "you human beings" so much?
So, when this is FULLY UNDERSTOOD, future readers will SEE that it did NOT matter how MANY times thee ACTUAL Truth is being told, to 'you', human beings, if 'you' BELIEVE otherwise, then 'you' STILL can NOT SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS. And, so because SO MUCH irrefutable Fact will exist, then this will provide MORE PROOF of WHY it is BETTER for EVERY one if, and when, BELIEFS are NEVER being HELD NOR MAINTAINED.
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm Are you not a human being yourself?
The 'you' here, from the Truly objective viewpoint, is 'a human being'. So, what 'you' are essentially asking, to ANOTHER human being, is, "Are 'you', a human being, not a human being? Which is nonsensical.

Also, when, and if, 'you' ever come to learning and understanding who and what the 'I' is, for example in the question, 'Who am 'I'?', who and what the 'you' is, who and what the 'human being' is, and who and what the 'person' is, then 'you' will begin to make far more sense out of all of this as well as understand the misnomer "yourself" also.
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm Or are you some sort of AI? An alien from another planet? Some other intelligent Earth-based species like a dolphin?
I will put it this way, for you; before 'you', human beings, came/evolved into existence what was 'it' called, exactly, which 'you', human beings, evolved/came from?

Now, do 'you', a human being, envision that 'you', human beings, will continue on either forever, or until your demise, or is it possible that 'human beings' could just be one part, of many parts, along an evolving or evolutionary path towards Knowing thy 'Self'?

If 'you' can envision that this could be a possibility, then can 'you' imagine that their is some 'Intelligence' somehow involved within ALL-OF-THIS somehow, and which, through evolution, is just coming to Know Its/thy Self, and 'you', human beings' are just a part along this continually evolving pathway?

If 'you' can imagine this, then just like EVERY thing else human beings have come to learn and KNOW there are obviously some who learn, understand, and/or KNOW some things before the rest do.

Now, OBVIOUSLY, NO human being is more NOR less 'intelligent' than "another human being" is. But, what is just as OBVIOUS is the Fact that 'we' ALL come to learn, understand, and KNOW DIFFERENT things, at DIFFERENT times.

Also, your use of the word 'Or' here was illogical in the context which you used it, but anyway, thank you for the CLARIFYING QUESTION. Those questions are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

Although I may NOT have provided 'you' with the ACTUAL answer 'you' were looking for and wanting, what I am essentially saying is when, and if, 'you' also come to Know thy Self, then ALL-OF-THIS will make PERFECT SENSE.
Age, when a person says, "human being" we are usually referring to other people. That's all. If you think you're not a member of the human species, then I'd just like to know what group you belong to or think you belong to? It's not a rocket science question. It's a very straightforward common sense question. Otherwise, I think your being rather unnecessarily abstruse. LIke you're just struggling to find something to disagree with others about when there is no need to. Join humanity! We're here right in front of you waiting for you to talk sensibly to us.
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Lacewing
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress to Age wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:21 am Join humanity! We're here right in front of you waiting for you to talk sensibly to us.
Bravo! :D You're right, it shouldn't be that hard.

People who try to distinguish themselves separately from the majority of humankind are playing a game that's senseless because it's only intended to serve and justify themselves. It's also not truthful because we're all part of humankind, with access to vast insights and capabilities. Those who continually boast that they uniquely know something that others don't, demonstrate nothing except their foolishness and ego.
Age
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Re: Calculations Suggest It'll Be Impossible to Control a Super-Intelligent AI

Post by Age »

commonsense wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:43 pm
Age wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:18 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm

Why do you use the phrase "you human beings" so much?
So, when this is FULLY UNDERSTOOD, future readers will SEE that it did NOT matter how MANY times thee ACTUAL Truth is being told, to 'you', human beings, if 'you' BELIEVE otherwise, then 'you' STILL can NOT SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS. And, so because SO MUCH irrefutable Fact will exist, then this will provide MORE PROOF of WHY it is BETTER for EVERY one if, and when, BELIEFS are NEVER being HELD NOR MAINTAINED.
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm Are you not a human being yourself?
The 'you' here, from the Truly objective viewpoint, is 'a human being'. So, what 'you' are essentially asking, to ANOTHER human being, is, "Are 'you', a human being, not a human being? Which is nonsensical.

Also, when, and if, 'you' ever come to learning and understanding who and what the 'I' is, for example in the question, 'Who am 'I'?', who and what the 'you' is, who and what the 'human being' is, and who and what the 'person' is, then 'you' will begin to make far more sense out of all of this as well as understand the misnomer "yourself" also.
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:53 pm Or are you some sort of AI? An alien from another planet? Some other intelligent Earth-based species like a dolphin?
I will put it this way, for you; before 'you', human beings, came/evolved into existence what was 'it' called, exactly, which 'you', human beings, evolved/came from?

Now, do 'you', a human being, envision that 'you', human beings, will continue on either forever, or until your demise, or is it possible that 'human beings' could just be one part, of many parts, along an evolving or evolutionary path towards Knowing thy 'Self'?

If 'you' can envision that this could be a possibility, then can 'you' imagine that their is some 'Intelligence' somehow involved within ALL-OF-THIS somehow, and which, through evolution, is just coming to Know Its/thy Self, and 'you', human beings' are just a part along this continually evolving pathway?

If 'you' can imagine this, then just like EVERY thing else human beings have come to learn and KNOW there are obviously some who learn, understand, and/or KNOW some things before the rest do.

Now, OBVIOUSLY, NO human being is more NOR less 'intelligent' than "another human being" is. But, what is just as OBVIOUS is the Fact that 'we' ALL come to learn, understand, and KNOW DIFFERENT things, at DIFFERENT times.

Also, your use of the word 'Or' here was illogical in the context which you used it, but anyway, thank you for the CLARIFYING QUESTION. Those questions are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

Although I may NOT have provided 'you' with the ACTUAL answer 'you' were looking for and wanting, what I am essentially saying is when, and if, 'you' also come to Know thy Self, then ALL-OF-THIS will make PERFECT SENSE.
Age,

You must realize that your reply above portrays you as not being of sound mind.
Your ASSUMPTION was Wrong. But, anyway, I do 'now' realize that this is what has been portrayed, well to you.

Now, if absolutely ANY one wants to CHALLENGE me on ANY or ALL of the above, then please feel absolutely FREE to do so. That way who is ACTUALLY of sound or unsound thinking can be and WILL BE CLEARLY SEEN. Also, if absolutely ANY one wants to gain clarity and thus make better sense of the above, then also please absolutely FREE to just ask some clarifying questions, that is; from the Truly OPEN perspective, ONLY.

And, for those who say the above is from one of "not being of sound mind", then I just ask them to explain what a 'mind' IS, EXACTLY, which could even, purportedly, be of 'unsoundness'?

If ANY one is NOT able to do this or they do NOT do this, then it is them who is REVEALING who is Truly unsound.

(If one talks about "others", as though they are "not being of sound mind", but that one does NOT even KNOW what the 'mind' is, EXACTLY, reveals more about them than it does the "others". For surely to CLAIM an "other" is "not being of sound mind", then that one MUST KNOW, and be able to explain, what the 'mind' or what a 'sound mind' IS, EXACTLY, correct?")
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