Conscious universe?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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bahman
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Re: Conscious universe?

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 pm I really don't have time to get through this.
'you' MUST BE a VERY BUSY 'person' then.
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 pmSorry.
'you' do NOT have to be "sorry" for being such a VERY BUSY 'person'.

'you', people, seem to always be just TO BUSY to LOOK AT and DISCUSS 'things' FULLY, and PROPERLY, anyway.

This is because you are ALL just TO BUSY, doing whatever 'it' is that you are ACTUALLY DOING?

Are you doing ANY thing that is Truly IMPORTANT?

If yes, then WHAT?
Thinking.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 pm You don't even understand the difference between definition and proof.
Well this is ONE HUGE CLAIM that 'you' have here. Will 'you' SHARE with 'us' what PROOF 'you' ACTUALLY HAVE for this CLAIM of YOURS?
I define a person as mind and body. And you question and laugh at it.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 pm When I say that person is mind and body that means by definition!
But when you say "mind", which is OBVIOUSLY HALF, or PART OF, 'person', has been around since the beginning, then what does that MEAN, by definition?
That is another thing.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am Or, do you NOT have "the time" to ANSWER this CLARIFYING QUESTION, as well?
It depends.
Age
Posts: 20043
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Conscious universe?

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 pm I really don't have time to get through this.
'you' MUST BE a VERY BUSY 'person' then.
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 pmSorry.
'you' do NOT have to be "sorry" for being such a VERY BUSY 'person'.

'you', people, seem to always be just TO BUSY to LOOK AT and DISCUSS 'things' FULLY, and PROPERLY, anyway.

This is because you are ALL just TO BUSY, doing whatever 'it' is that you are ACTUALLY DOING?

Are you doing ANY thing that is Truly IMPORTANT?

If yes, then WHAT?
Thinking.
I found KNOWING to be FAR MORE IMPORTANT then THINKING ever was, or ever would be.
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 pm You don't even understand the difference between definition and proof.
Well this is ONE HUGE CLAIM that 'you' have here. Will 'you' SHARE with 'us' what PROOF 'you' ACTUALLY HAVE for this CLAIM of YOURS?
I define a person as mind and body. And you question and laugh at it.
So, WHENEVER ANY one questions and laughs at SOME thing, then that INSTANTLY MEANS that one does NOT KNOW the difference between 'definition' and 'proof', to you, correct?

Also, do you NOT like BEING QUESTIONED.

AND, WHERE did I EVER laugh when talking with you?
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 pm When I say that person is mind and body that means by definition!
But when you say "mind", which is OBVIOUSLY HALF, or PART OF, 'person', has been around since the beginning, then what does that MEAN, by definition?
That is another thing.
So, to you, "mind" has been around, "since the beginning", while "persons" have been around for not more than a few million years, but you ALSO CLAIM that 'person' IS "mind", correct?
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am Or, do you NOT have "the time" to ANSWER this CLARIFYING QUESTION, as well?
It depends.
On 'what', EXACTLY, Thinking?
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Conscious universe?

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:37 am
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
'you' MUST BE a VERY BUSY 'person' then.


'you' do NOT have to be "sorry" for being such a VERY BUSY 'person'.

'you', people, seem to always be just TO BUSY to LOOK AT and DISCUSS 'things' FULLY, and PROPERLY, anyway.

This is because you are ALL just TO BUSY, doing whatever 'it' is that you are ACTUALLY DOING?

Are you doing ANY thing that is Truly IMPORTANT?

If yes, then WHAT?
Thinking.
I found KNOWING to be FAR MORE IMPORTANT then THINKING ever was, or ever would be.
But you need to think in order to know unless you are omniscient. Are you claiming that you are omniscient?
Age wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:37 am
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
Well this is ONE HUGE CLAIM that 'you' have here. Will 'you' SHARE with 'us' what PROOF 'you' ACTUALLY HAVE for this CLAIM of YOURS?
I define a person as mind and body. And you question and laugh at it.
So, WHENEVER ANY one questions and laughs at SOME thing, then that INSTANTLY MEANS that one does NOT KNOW the difference between 'definition' and 'proof', to you, correct?

Also, do you NOT like BEING QUESTIONED.

AND, WHERE did I EVER laugh when talking with you?
When you use LOL.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am But when you say "mind", which is OBVIOUSLY HALF, or PART OF, 'person', has been around since the beginning, then what does that MEAN, by definition?
That is another thing.
So, to you, "mind" has been around, "since the beginning", while "persons" have been around for not more than a few million years, but you ALSO CLAIM that 'person' IS "mind", correct?
No, person is mind and body.
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am Or, do you NOT have "the time" to ANSWER this CLARIFYING QUESTION, as well?
It depends.
On 'what', EXACTLY, Thinking?
Depends on how relevant is a quesion.
Age
Posts: 20043
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Conscious universe?

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:16 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:37 am
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
Thinking.
I found KNOWING to be FAR MORE IMPORTANT then THINKING ever was, or ever would be.
But you need to think in order to know unless you are omniscient. Are you claiming that you are omniscient?
No. WHY would a 'you' even THINK or ASSUME such a thing?

And, when that body kicks its toe, do 'you' then need to THINK, and wonder if, "it hurts" BEFORE 'you' KNOW 'it hurts'?

Can NOT the feeling or sensory receptors KNOW some thing, BEFORE 'you' begin to even START THINKING some thing?

And, WHY do 'you' PRESUME that one HAS TO KNOW EVERY thing before they can just KNOW some thing WITHOUT before first NEEDING to THINK?
bahman wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:16 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:37 am
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
I define a person as mind and body. And you question and laugh at it.
So, WHENEVER ANY one questions and laughs at SOME thing, then that INSTANTLY MEANS that one does NOT KNOW the difference between 'definition' and 'proof', to you, correct?

Also, do you NOT like BEING QUESTIONED.

AND, WHERE did I EVER laugh when talking with you?
When you use LOL.
I have suggest BEFORE and I will suggest AGAIN, ask CLARIFYING QUESTIONS BEFORE 'you' JUMP to MAKING ASSUMPTIONS and/or BELIEVING things, then that way 'you' will NOT be SO WRONG, and as SO OFTEN, as 'you' HAVE BEEN .

Could LOL mean ANY thing else besides what 'you' THINK or BELIEVE it does here?

Or, does LOL HAVE TO MEAN what you THINK or BELIEVE it does?
bahman wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:16 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
That is another thing.
So, to you, "mind" has been around, "since the beginning", while "persons" have been around for not more than a few million years, but you ALSO CLAIM that 'person' IS "mind", correct?
No, person is mind and body.
Okay. So, the QUESTION STILL STANDS. That is:

So, to you, "mind" has been around, "since the beginning", while "persons" have been around for not more than a few million years, but you ALSO CLAIM that 'person' IS "mind" and body, correct?
bahman wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:16 pm
Age wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:52 am
bahman wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:54 pm
It depends.
On 'what', EXACTLY, Thinking?
Depends on how relevant is a quesion.
Well OBVIOUSLY ALL CLARIFYING QUESTIONS are EXTREMELY RELEVANT to the ONE who is ASKING the QUESTION. Otherwise, OBVIOUSLY, they would NOT ask THE QUESTION.

Do 'you' just IMAGINE, and then DECIDE, on just how RELEVANT a QUESTION is, for YOUR OWN BENEFIT, but which it was "another one" who has ACTUALLY asked and posed THAT QUESTION, to 'you'?

The relevance or not of a question, posed to you, is NOT depended upon 'you' but depends on the the one posing the question.

You are OBVIOUSLY COMPLETELY and UTTERLY FREE to answer or NOT answer, and answer and NOT answer in ANY WAY you see fit. However, NOT ANSWERING CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed to 'you' is a SURE SIGN that one is NOT CAPABLE of being ABLE to answer that question, or just NOT WILLING to. And, either way, I suggest that if one can NOT back up and support THEIR CLAIMS BEFORE they MAKE A CLAIM, then it is BEST for them to NOT MAKE THE CLAIM, AT ALL.
socrat44
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Conscious universe?

Post by socrat44 »

The Nature and Consciousness cannot be created randomly during
14 billion years - because the "Infinite monkey theorem" forbid
such random situation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

It means, during 14 billion years Nature was evolved consciously.
Without inclusion the concept of consciousness in physics,
it is impossible to explain many key aspects of the physics of Nature.
If scientists are looking for "unified theory" in physics,
then consciousness should be included in the theory.
#
‘’In general, the universe seems to me to be nearer
to a great thought than to a great machine.’’
/ James Jeans /
Attachments
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socrat44
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Conscious universe?

Post by socrat44 »

Life After Death? --Physicists Says
"It's Quantum Information that Transcends from One World to Another"
October 20, 2021
------
Penrose argues that if a person temporarily dies, this quantum information
is released from the microtubules and into the universe. However, if they are
resuscitated the quantum information is channeled back into the microtubules
and that is what sparks a near death experience. “If they’re not revived,
and the patient dies, it’s possible that this quantum information can exist
outside the body, perhaps indefinitely, as a soul.
#
Researchers from the renowned Max Planck Institute for Physics in Munich
are in agreement with Penrose that the physical universe that we live in is only
our perception and once our physical bodies die, there is an infinite beyond.
Some believe that consciousness travels to parallel universes after death.
---------
https://www.physics-astronomy.org/2021/ ... GiBwCgbLD8
---------
My opinion: atom = an electron + a proton
Proton - a passive particle
The dualistic Electron - an active particle who carry quantum information —
(information that is stored at a sub-atomic level) and can transfer from one world to another.
------
socrat44
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Conscious universe?

Post by socrat44 »

n ancient times nature was described as the work of some divine force (s).
Slowly nonscientific methodology (to understand the “truth” of nature)
changed to scientific methods. At the beginning scientists successfully
described the physical laws and created telegraf, radio, new machines . . . etc.
The problem was raised with discovering quantum physics.
Thanks to quantum physics we have modern technology, but the philosophical
aspect of quantum physics is "strange". On the internet it is possible to find
many - many scientific quotes about the weirdness of quantum physics.
But nature can be understood only by math-physical laws, formulas . . .
Only they can lead us to a logical understanding of how Nature was created and works.
"Quantum theory also tells us that the world is not simply objective;
somehow it's something more subtle than that. In some sense it is veiled from us,
but it has a structure that we can understand."
--- John Polkinghorne
=========
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