Does The Singularity Exist?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

wtf
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:36 pm

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by wtf »

socrat44 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:54 am Does The Singularity Exist?
The subject you discussed is whether "a" singularity can exist. The answer is no. A singularity is a mathematical phenomenon that indicates that the physics has broken down and that we need better theory. There's no actual singularity inside a black hole, a zero-dimensional point of infinite mass or whatever. That's a mathematical anomaly that doesn't exist in reality.

"The" singularity is the idea that computers will become smarter than us and we'll upload our minds and all that kind of fashionable nonsense. Completely separate idea from what you are discussing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
The technological singularity—also, simply, the singularity[1]—is a hypothetical point in time at which technological growth becomes uncontrollable and irreversible, resulting in unforeseeable changes to human civilization.[2][3] According to the most popular version of the singularity hypothesis, called intelligence explosion, an upgradable intelligent agent will eventually enter a "runaway reaction" of self-improvement cycles, each new and more intelligent generation appearing more and more rapidly, causing an "explosion" in intelligence and resulting in a powerful superintelligence that qualitatively far surpasses all human intelligence.
But what do I know, I've never even given a TED talk. Come the singularity I'll be consigned to the fossil museum along with my buggy whip.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9867
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:51 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:27 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:20 pm
Math says nothing about existence. First you have existence, then you learn to count and measure it. You may be suffering from the Pythagorean psychosis. When the Pythagoreans, who believed, like you, that everything could be explained by math, discovered incommensurables, they killed themselves. Take care!
The maths doesn't actually say that a black hole singularity exists in reality. The maths breaks down at the quantum level and therein lies the mystery. As far as I can decipher, when they don't have the maths yet to fully explain a theory then infinity pops us. The word is mathS, or do you have a lithp?
Actually I agree with that. A lot of nonsense comes out of quantum speculation, I think.

Yes, I'm familiar with the slang of some cultures, but even there the two most well-known mathematical works (Newton, Russell) were, Principia Mathematica, not principia "maths." In Thailand, Italy, Greece, Cost Rica, or Brazil, and most of the world, people just look at you funny if you say, "maths." It's actually a big, "so what!?" Say it any way you like. There's no law.
It's American and Americans are just offensive anyway. The way they treat language is an abomination. 'Principia Mathematica' is Latin and Latin follows different rules from English.
Age
Posts: 7753
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by Age »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:27 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:20 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:22 am If the maths says it exists then it exists. That's the way of the universe.
Math says nothing about existence. First you have existence, then you learn to count and measure it. You may be suffering from the Pythagorean psychosis. When the Pythagoreans, who believed, like you, that everything could be explained by math, discovered incommensurables, they killed themselves. Take care!
The maths doesn't actually say that a black hole singularity exists in reality. The maths breaks down at the quantum level and therein lies the mystery. As far as I can decipher, when they don't have the maths yet to fully explain a theory then infinity pops us.
Sometimes the reason WHY theories do NOT get FULLY EXPLAINED is because the theory is just plain old Wrong or Incorrect, and so can NOT be EXPLAINED, AT ALL. After all, 'theories' are just a GUESS. And, OBVIOUSLY, NOT ALL GUESSES are true, right NOR correct.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:27 pm The word is mathS, or do you have a lithp?
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 3036
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by RCSaunders »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:22 am It's American and Americans are just offensive anyway.
What's an, "American?"
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9867
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:35 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:22 am It's American and Americans are just offensive anyway.
What's an, "American?"
Those people who say 'math', can't spell, and love to dumb everything down. In music they have done their best to dumb it down by renaming crotchets, minims, quavers etc. as 'quarter notes, half notes, eighth notes etc', and calling tones and semitones 'steps and half steps', but they have only succeeded in making it more complicated and difficult to learn. It's not even correct. A crotchet is only 'one quarter' in a particular time signature. A quaver can be one beat, or a third of a beat, or half a beat..It depends. Instead of 'seconds' or 'thirds', Americans say 'step' and 'skip', which becomes a nonsensical mess a bit further along the line when they call semitones 'half steps' and tones 'whole steps' after calling a C to a D a 'step' instead of a 'second' when in fact it's a tone (two semitones), and then confusing things further by using the word 'half', which they use for minims, which may or may not take up two beats in a bar, and then there's the fact that they call a B to a C a 'step' while later calling it a 'half step' because it's only a semitone blah blah blah blah...Yes, minims are half of a semibreve (the overuse of the word 'half' is very confusing for anyone trying to learn music) which they childishly call a 'whole note' but what is a breve then? A double whole note? Ridiculous. The fuckwits are so intent on being 'cool' and 'anti-intellectual' that they really just cock everything up, and they have done the same thing with the English language. Fuck them.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Age
Posts: 7753
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by Age »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:39 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:35 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:22 am It's American and Americans are just offensive anyway.
What's an, "American?"
EXCELLENT QUESTION.

And what WILL BE FOUND from ANY one trying to answer this question Honestly, is that there will be NO answer given that will be in AGREEMENT, which WILL BE PROVED True.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:39 pm Those people who say 'math', can't spell, and love to dumb everything down. In music they have done their best to dumb it down by renaming crotchets, minims, quavers etc. as 'quarter notes, half notes, eighth notes etc', and calling tones and semitones 'steps and half steps', but they have only succeeded in making it more complicated and difficult to learn. It's not even correct. A crotchet is only 'one quarter' in a particular time signature. A quaver can be one beat, or a third of a beat, half a beat..It depends. Instead of 'seconds' or 'thirds', Americans say 'step' and 'skip', which becomes a nonsensical mess a bit further along the line when they call semitones 'half steps' and tones 'whole steps' after calling a C to a D a 'step' instead of a 'second' when in fact it's a tone (two semitones), and then confusing things further by using the word 'half', which they use for minims, which may or may not take up two beats in a bar blah blah blah blah...Yes they are half of a semibreve (the overuse of the word 'half' is very confusing for anyone trying to learn music) which they childishly call a 'whole note' but what is a breve then? A double whole note? Ridiculous. The fuckwits are so intent on being 'cool' and 'anti-intellectual' that they really just cock everything up, and they have done the same thing with the English language. Fuck them.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 3036
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by RCSaunders »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:39 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:35 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:22 am It's American and Americans are just offensive anyway.
What's an, "American?"
Those people who say 'math', can't spell, and love to dumb everything down. In music they have done their best to dumb it down by renaming crotchets, minims, quavers etc. as 'quarter notes, half notes, eighth notes etc', and calling tones and semitones 'steps and half steps', but they have only succeeded in making it more complicated and difficult to learn. It's not even correct. A crotchet is only 'one quarter' in a particular time signature. A quaver can be one beat, or a third of a beat, half a beat..It depends. Instead of 'seconds' or 'thirds', Americans say 'step' and 'skip', which becomes a nonsensical mess a bit further along the line when they call semitones 'half steps' and tones 'whole steps' after calling a C to a D a 'step' instead of a 'second' when in fact it's a tone (two semitones), and then confusing things further by using the word 'half', which they use for minims, which may or may not take up two beats in a bar blah blah blah blah...Yes they are half of a semibreve (the overuse of the word 'half' is very confusing for anyone trying to learn music) which they childishly call a 'whole note' but what is a breve then? A double whole note? Ridiculous. The fuckwits are so intent on being 'cool' and 'anti-intellectual' that they really just cock everything up, and they have done the same thing with the English language. Stuff them.
Tsk, tsk. Shame on them!
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9867
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:20 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:39 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:35 am
What's an, "American?"
Those people who say 'math', can't spell, and love to dumb everything down. In music they have done their best to dumb it down by renaming crotchets, minims, quavers etc. as 'quarter notes, half notes, eighth notes etc', and calling tones and semitones 'steps and half steps', but they have only succeeded in making it more complicated and difficult to learn. It's not even correct. A crotchet is only 'one quarter' in a particular time signature. A quaver can be one beat, or a third of a beat, half a beat..It depends. Instead of 'seconds' or 'thirds', Americans say 'step' and 'skip', which becomes a nonsensical mess a bit further along the line when they call semitones 'half steps' and tones 'whole steps' after calling a C to a D a 'step' instead of a 'second' when in fact it's a tone (two semitones), and then confusing things further by using the word 'half', which they use for minims, which may or may not take up two beats in a bar blah blah blah blah...Yes they are half of a semibreve (the overuse of the word 'half' is very confusing for anyone trying to learn music) which they childishly call a 'whole note' but what is a breve then? A double whole note? Ridiculous. The fuckwits are so intent on being 'cool' and 'anti-intellectual' that they really just cock everything up, and they have done the same thing with the English language. Stuff them.
Tsk, tsk. Shame on them!
You might think that dumbing down the human race is 'cute', but I don't.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
wtf
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:36 pm

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by wtf »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:39 pm Those people who say 'math', can't spell, and love to dumb everything down.
I'm doing my best to learn to speak English.

I left my spanner on the bonnet of the lorry.

How's that?
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 3036
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by RCSaunders »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:34 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:20 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:39 pm

Those people who say 'math', can't spell, and love to dumb everything down. In music they have done their best to dumb it down by renaming crotchets, minims, quavers etc. as 'quarter notes, half notes, eighth notes etc', and calling tones and semitones 'steps and half steps', but they have only succeeded in making it more complicated and difficult to learn. It's not even correct. A crotchet is only 'one quarter' in a particular time signature. A quaver can be one beat, or a third of a beat, half a beat..It depends. Instead of 'seconds' or 'thirds', Americans say 'step' and 'skip', which becomes a nonsensical mess a bit further along the line when they call semitones 'half steps' and tones 'whole steps' after calling a C to a D a 'step' instead of a 'second' when in fact it's a tone (two semitones), and then confusing things further by using the word 'half', which they use for minims, which may or may not take up two beats in a bar blah blah blah blah...Yes they are half of a semibreve (the overuse of the word 'half' is very confusing for anyone trying to learn music) which they childishly call a 'whole note' but what is a breve then? A double whole note? Ridiculous. The fuckwits are so intent on being 'cool' and 'anti-intellectual' that they really just cock everything up, and they have done the same thing with the English language. Stuff them.
Tsk, tsk. Shame on them!
You might thing that dumbing down the human race is 'cute' but I don't.
Bloody bollocks, that!
socrat44
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by socrat44 »

wtf wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:29 am
socrat44 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:54 am Does The Singularity Exist?
The subject you discussed is whether "a" singularity can exist. The answer is no. A singularity is a mathematical phenomenon that indicates that the physics has broken down and that we need better theory. There's no actual singularity inside a black hole, a zero-dimensional point of infinite mass or whatever. That's a mathematical anomaly that doesn't exist in reality.
Well said, thanks
gaffo
Posts: 4120
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by gaffo »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:27 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:20 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:22 am If the maths says it exists then it exists. That's the way of the universe.
Math says nothing about existence. First you have existence, then you learn to count and measure it. You may be suffering from the Pythagorean psychosis. When the Pythagoreans, who believed, like you, that everything could be explained by math, discovered incommensurables, they killed themselves. Take care!
The maths doesn't actually say that a black hole singularity exists in reality. The maths breaks down at the quantum level and therein lies the mystery. As far as I can decipher, when they don't have the maths yet to fully explain a theory then infinity pops up. The word is mathS, or do you have a lithp?
the math breaks down at the relativity level - 1910 - 20 yrs prior to Plank's quantum physics math - which likewise dos not offer the maths to know the nature of signularity.

oh and BTW - the tow maths - neither know of the singularity - but neigther do the tow field rel and quanum conform - due to gravity. so even without a singularity the quantum math and rel math do not conform with either otehr - just like the Neutonian did not with the rel math.

so math is not only incomplete per singularities, its incomplete to reality outside of singularities! more of the universe.

hence why humility apt.
gaffo
Posts: 4120
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by gaffo »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:35 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:22 am It's American and Americans are just offensive anyway.
What's an, "American?"
anyone not a kiwi - probably including poms - veg's bar is high.
gaffo
Posts: 4120
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by gaffo »

wtf wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:25 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:39 pm Those people who say 'math', can't spell, and love to dumb everything down.
I'm doing my best to learn to speak English.

I left my spanner on the bonnet of the lorry.

How's that?
"spanner" is an old time word used by Brits, Ausies and New Zealanders(Veg is from NZ) - its just a word that is the same as "wrench", I'm just a dumb american, but saw your question and liking that you have an interest in learning english offer my hand to you to ecplain these things, knowing you don't know english so well and might not understand and hence your post.

"bonnet" is likewise an old english/assuie/nz term for a car's "hood". again I'm an american, i never use the term spanner nor bonnet - but i know of it as old words used long ago - more by brits, but probably used by american 100 yrs ago - today never used we use wrenc and hood inestead - the brits have movd from spanner/bonnet to wrench and hood also - but 75 yrs latyer.

today if you asked a brit which they used, i'd bet 60/40 they'd use the words wrench and hood over spanner and wrench. - where i suspect americans were about 100 yrs ago.

2-cents, good luck in your English!

"lorry" is an old time word for today's Taxi - and like the other two has not been used by americans for a century - and today is prob used by a minority of english/aussies and kiwi.
wtf
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:36 pm

Re: Does The Singularity Exist?

Post by wtf »

gaffo wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:52 amI'm just a dumb american, but saw your question and liking that you have an interest in learning english offer my hand to you to ecplain these things, knowing you don't know english so well and might not understand and hence your post.
Tell me your post was a joke. Or if you like, I'll be happy to explain my post to you.
Post Reply