How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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commonsense
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by commonsense »

:mrgreen:
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attofishpi
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by attofishpi »

:twisted:
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:27 am
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:59 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:49 am
I just gave you the definition of sequence, I'm sorry that you don't know what the word means. You're probably loosing something in it's translation.

Here, this is from what many believe is the English Dictionary of all English Dictionaries: Oxford:

sequence
Pronunciation /ˈsiːkw(ə)ns/
noun

1A particular order in which related things follow each other.
‘the content of the programme should follow a logical sequence’


Is that clear enough for you? I hope so, because I won't tell you again. Learn our language before you criticise it, Please!
I was referring to another definition of sequence: a set of related events, movements, or items that follow each other in a particular order. And my definition is the sequence is a set of ordered objects. The objects being things that exist like, event, movement, etc.
You and I grew from an egg and a sperm, once they were joined they were no longer two different things, they are then called zygotes, which are a grouping of attached cells that divide such that 1 become 2, 2 become 4, 4 become 8, etc, etc that takes time, it is a sequence, 8 cells cannot come before 2. Eventually they become an embryo then a fetus then a baby. That this starts in the past and comes to now, which, barring death, goes into the future, which when it arrives, is always ever now, points in the direction of time. PERIOD! Time starts in the past moving toward the future, always ever known in the now. Each now that we've been through was only ever immediately prior to the current now sequentially. Every now that we may come to know, immediately follows our current now sequentially. That we only ever know now, on the line of time, does not negate direction. Chemical reactions start and finish indicating direction.

Crap, it's like you don't know anything about the Big Bang.
Can you have a sequence made of one event so-called now? Past and future do not ontologically exist.
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

I think that the answer is in here.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by UniversalAlien »

bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
So called "now" and "one point" do not exist - They may have existed at the beginning, if there was a beginning.

Any time I come to a post like this {and I've started a few}, the first question I ask is when is now :?:
And always come to the same conclusion - Now is over as soon as think about it - You can not stop the so called arrow of time in a living, dynamic universe - Now is similar to the past, it is memory, a snapshot of what happened - In real time {if time exists at all} now does not exist it is already past as soon as you think about it.

All that exists is in the future and only the future exists.

And your statement "the future does not exist objectively" - But that is life, we must use the past and now and keep calculating and guessing the future, as it is the only existent state. :roll:
commonsense
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by commonsense »

UniversalAlien wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:16 am
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
So called "now" and "one point" do not exist - They may have existed at the beginning, if there was a beginning.

Any time I come to a post like this {and I've started a few}, the first question I ask is when is now :?:
And always come to the same conclusion - Now is over as soon as think about it - You can not stop the so called arrow of time in a living, dynamic universe - Now is similar to the past, it is memory, a snapshot of what happened - In real time {if time exists at all} now does not exist it is already past as soon as you think about it.

All that exists is in the future and only the future exists.

And your statement "the future does not exist objectively" - But that is life, we must use the past and now and keep calculating and guessing the future, as it is the only existent state. :roll:
Now does not exist as soon as you thought of it, which is not the same as when you think about it.

The future is an expectation that may, or may not, be realized once now arrives.

Roll your eyes if you wish, but just do it now.
commonsense
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by commonsense »

FUTURE —becomes —-> NOW —becomes —-> PAST

——————————————————————-———————->

expectation ———-——> reality————————> memory
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UniversalAlien
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by UniversalAlien »

commonsense wrote:
"Now does not exist as soon as you thought of it, which is not the same as when you think about it....."
Same problem - When is when? - In real time it passes as soon as it occurs, therefor the exact real time occurrence can not be established. It is either past or future - I'm questioning the reality of any actual 'point of now'.
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Scott Mayers »

I haven't been a part of this discussion and so will just recommend Brian Greene's explanation on this given I believe he is the best popular science explainer (in my opinion) regarding this. I didn't watch this particular video but CAN send a segment of one of his documentaries that demonstrate this with some visuals.

I understand and agree with him on this: that there is nothing special about the direction of time. It goes in both directions but that entropy in the perspective of an observer makes it hard to imagine how physics operates the same in the backwards direction. I have my own examples I might add but think his should suffice given I lack his skill set.

For now, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4iU76Qj2mU

EDIT addition: I cannot get access to the original video(s) that used to be on YouTube. I believe it was "Fabric of the Cosmos" and based on his book of the same name (with possible subtitles?) This is on pbs but my country blocks access to them (even though they have always appealed to and accepted Canadian donations!) We get better access to Australia than we do the U.S. these days for some unknown reason!! [This site is one example.]
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

Scott Mayers wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:40 pm I haven't been a part of this discussion and so will just recommend Brian Greene's explanation on this given I believe he is the best popular science explainer (in my opinion) regarding this. I didn't watch this particular video but CAN send a segment of one of his documentaries that demonstrate this with some visuals.

I understand and agree with him on this: that there is nothing special about the direction of time. It goes in both directions but that entropy in the perspective of an observer makes it hard to imagine how physics operates the same in the backwards direction. I have my own examples I might add but think his should suffice given I lack his skill set.

For now, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4iU76Qj2mU

EDIT addition: I cannot get access to the original video(s) that used to be on YouTube. I believe it was "Fabric of the Cosmos" and based on his book of the same name (with possible subtitles?) This is on pbs but my country blocks access to them (even though they have always appealed to and accepted Canadian donations!) We get better access to Australia than we do the U.S. these days for some unknown reason!! [This site is one example.]
I agree with the concepts of two times. I already elaborated on it here.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by UniversalAlien »

bahman wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:36 pm I agree with the concepts of two times. I already elaborated on it here.
When Einstein postulated Relativity it was not at first accepted - Later it was proven.

Since you and others here say time is 'two times' or can move in two directions, forward and back
- I would ask for evidence of this in the apparent real world - Show me an example to time moving backwards.

You see to me 'Now' occurred at only one time in the history of time - at the Big Bang
- That is the only point of 'Now'

From then on it progresses continuously and can not be stopped - Unless it was to reverse as
the 'big crunch' - And then you would be back to now - but as far as we know this is not happening and may never happen.

So if now no longer exists - all states of existence are occurring hypothetically in the future.

So 'Many Worlds' are still possible. :arrow: :!:
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bahman
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by bahman »

UniversalAlien wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:14 am
bahman wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:36 pm I agree with the concepts of two times. I already elaborated on it here.
When Einstein postulated Relativity it was not at first accepted - Later it was proven.

Since you and others here say time is 'two times' or can move in two directions, forward and back
- I would ask for evidence of this in the apparent real world - Show me an example to time moving backwards.

You see to me 'Now' occurred at only one time in the history of time - at the Big Bang
- That is the only point of 'Now'

From then on it progresses continuously and can not be stopped - Unless it was to reverse as
the 'big crunch' - And then you would be back to now - but as far as we know this is not happening and may never happen.

So if now no longer exists - all states of existence are occurring hypothetically in the future.

So 'Many Worlds' are still possible. :arrow: :!:
I am not saying that time is two times. Instead, I am claiming that there are at least two times each in a world.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by UniversalAlien »

bahman wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:19 pm I am not saying that time is two times. Instead, I am claiming that there are at least two times each in a world.
Can you elaborate on this? - What do you mean by 'two times each in a world.' ?
Walker
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Walker »

bahman wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm I think we can agree on the arrow of time which tells us that there is a direction in time. Time, however, exists at one point so-called now, the past is collective memory and the future does not exist objectively. My question is how time can have a direction if it only exists at one point? That is a problem since you need two objective points (by two objective points I mean two points which both exist) to define a direction.
Now is where time does not exist.
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Re: How time can only exist at now and yet has a direction?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Time doesn't actually have a "direction," that's just a metaphorical way of thinking about it.

It doesn't make sense to say that change has a "direction" really. It's just change, however things change. If something changes "back to how it was," that's still just change (and it's not literally identical when it changes back; it's just a change that resembles how something was).

"Now" is just the changes that are occurring in a particular reference frame, and that reference frame includes different "scopes" or "scales"--a la degrees of detail and/or broadness of frame, with respect to the changes that are happening. So the changes happening, as opposed to changes that happened already, from the reference frame of something like an electron will be different than the changes that are happening from the reference from of consciousness.
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