Einstein on the train

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Logik
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Re: Basta!

Post by Logik » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:51 am

Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:49 am
It is ALWAYS creating, energy
From what?

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:59 am

Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:17 am
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:08 am
But I am NOT arguing for NOR against any position.
You are examining and arguing against all positions without holding a position of your own.
Another ASSUMED position you have here, which is clearly WRONG, AGAIN.

Whilst HAVING a VIEW, this can be considered holding a position. I have expressed my VIEW.

But expressing a VIEW, this, however, does NOT necessitate that it HAS TO BE argued for. Therefore, a position can be held/maintained without necessarily being argued for.
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:17 am
You are protecting your ego, because it can't stand on its own.
Saying that I am protecting my ego is ASSUMPTION, which is OBVIOUSLY WRONG, when, and if, 'you' even know who/what the 'I' IS.
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:17 am
The easiest way to avoid being "wrong" and to manage your fear of failure is to be a Pyrrhonian skeptic.
If you say so. But that clearly sounds like it is coming from your own EXPERIENCE.

uwot
Posts: 4077
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Basta!

Post by uwot » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:24 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:49 am
But then again I have NO credentials, and relatively NO scientific understanding, and thus am NOT worthy of even being listened to, correct?
Well Age, since you ask, no. It's much simpler than that. The reason you are not worth listening to is that you are a blithering half-wit who cannot understand that someone who describes their work as a series of stories is under no illusion that they are anything but stories. The only assumption I have made is that it might be possible for you to engage in a meaningful dialogue. This you have successfully demonstrated is not so.

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:31 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:08 am
I also have simply been asking for your cooperation and OPINION on the answer to two questions, which are based on what you, yourself, have stated:
How could an infinite Universe expand? And,
How is saying 'infinite Universe' is describing a BOUNDED universe?
Do you even recognize that you are asking two different questions about two different conceptions of the universe?
Yes one was asked to you in direct response to what you, yourself, STATED.

The other I wrote was in regards to those who suggest that an infinite Universe could expand.

I thought this would be clearly obvious, by now.
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
Do you draw a distinction between the universe and matter IN the universe?
Yes, OF COURSE.

Do you draw a distinction between the pea soup and peas IN the soup?
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
Back to the hotel analogy. When you say "The Universe" do you mean ONLY the hotel, or do you mean the hotel AND the occupants?
When I say 'the Universe' I mean Everything, or in other words EVERY thing together as One. To put this to the hotel analogy, when I say 'the Universe' I mean Everything.
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
When scientists say "the universe is expanding" what scientist mean is "there are more occupants ".
Do they?

I am NOT sure if it was exciting enough to stipulate here though. So, what EXACTLY is the 'Universe' made up of, to those which you call "scientists"?
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
Why? Because we, humans are made of matter. We are biased that way. We are not interested in the "infinite void".
Have no idea what you are talking about here. You, human beings, are biased in WHAT way?

Why are you NOT interested in the so called "infinite void"?

By the way what EXACTLY is the 'infinite void', which you here now talk about?
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
So no, I cannot answer your questions because you are asking them from both perspectives (intentionally, I might imagine).
You clearly wrote thus STATED that when "another" said; 'infinite Universe' they were describing a BOUNDED universe.

You wrote: What you are describing is a BOUNDED, not an infinite universe. You STATED this when "another" wrote: An infinite universe can't get any bigger, it's already infinite.

Now, IF you can NOT explain nor elaborate on what you WROTE, then so be it. I understand that you are totally incapable of explaining and/or elaborating on what you some times say and write.
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
And until you CHOOSE a perspective and stick to it I am going to keep telling you to fuck off ;)
That is your prerogative.

The different perspectives are OBVIOUS.

One perspective, after all, is YOUR VERY OWN PERSPECTIVE. Considering it was your very own perspective, the I CHOOSE your very own perspective for this question: How is saying 'infinite Universe' describing a BOUNDED universe?

The perspective I CHOOSE for the next question: How could an infinite Universe expand? which you have also NOT answered, IS: Whatever perspective you WANT to come from, but I suggest coming from your very own perspective is the SIMPLEST and EASIEST one for you to use.
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:08 am
By the way is infinity + 1 a logical question?

If yes, then what is the answer?
It is a Mathematical inequality. An inequality is either true or false.

I don't know what THE answer is. It's not a "right" or "wrong" kind of question.
It's an axiom. A choice.

That is why I asked your OPINION.

IF you answer the question, then I can understand what you mean by "infinity".
Are you absolutely sure whatever answer I give then you can understand what I mean by 'infinity'?
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:26 am
If you don't answer the question - well. Fuck off :)
You appear to be upset by some thing.

Anyway, my answer is probably the exact same as yours is.

So, now you can understand what I mean by 'infinity'?

If no, then there is a truly much quicker, simpler, and easier way to UNDERSTAND things.
If yes, then great. You have now gained more understanding.
Last edited by Age on Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:33 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:39 am
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:36 am
Considering I wrote MY VIEW, starting of by using the VERY SPECIFIC WORDS; The actual Truth IS: and I also write: If you SEE some thing WRONG with what I write, then POINT IT OUT.
You don't really take feedback as well as you think you do.
How 'well' do you ASSUME/BELIEVE I take feedback?

Also, HOW do you KNOW how well I THINK I take feedback?

Logik
Posts: 3907
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Logik » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:39 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:31 pm
Anyway, my answer is probably the exact same as yours is.
Why do you BELIEVE that?

There is 50% probability that your answer is different to mine

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:40 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:36 am
IS saying things as a 'pejorative' another example of the 'cooperative principle', which you link to?
No, It's a intentional "fuck off" to somebody who refuses to cooperate.
Is this 'cooperative principle', which you linked to, a 'principle' you consider to be very important and it would be better followed?
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am
And I will demonstrate immediately.

Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:36 am
Considering I wrote MY VIEW, starting of by using the VERY SPECIFIC WORDS; The actual Truth IS:
In your ACTUAL TRUTHFUL VIEW is this true: ∞ + 1 > ∞

From here onward any avoidance to the above will earn you nothing but profanities and pejoratives :)
LOL do you THINK/BELIEVE I would really care?

Also, just so I KNOW I understand you correct, you WANT me to be cooperative and ANSWER your mathematical inequality example question, which OBVIOUSLY has NOTHING whatsoever to do with MY VIEW/S, but YET you will NOT answer ANY question I ask you, which IS specifically directed to the words you actually wrote down, and thus have STATED, is this correct?

Logik
Posts: 3907
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Logik » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:42 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:40 pm
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:36 am
IS saying things as a 'pejorative' another example of the 'cooperative principle', which you link to?
No, It's a intentional "fuck off" to somebody who refuses to cooperate.
Is this 'cooperative principle', which you linked to, a 'principle' you consider to be very important and it would be better followed?
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am
And I will demonstrate immediately.

Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:36 am
Considering I wrote MY VIEW, starting of by using the VERY SPECIFIC WORDS; The actual Truth IS:
In your ACTUAL TRUTHFUL VIEW is this true: ∞ + 1 > ∞

From here onward any avoidance to the above will earn you nothing but profanities and pejoratives :)
LOL do you THINK/BELIEVE I would really care?

Also, just so I KNOW I understand you correct, you WANT me to be cooperative and ANSWER your mathematical inequality example question, which OBVIOUSLY has NOTHING whatsoever to do with MY VIEW/S, but YET you will NOT answer ANY question I ask you, which IS specifically directed to the words you actually wrote down, and thus have STATED, is this correct?
OK. So you have a view on the infinities, but you are not prepared to answer clarifying questions about it.

Gotcha.

FUCK OFF :)

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Basta!

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:45 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:51 am
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:49 am
It is ALWAYS creating, energy
From what?
Did you read ALL of what I wrote in that post? Because if you did it was in there. I thought I made it clear.

But if you MISSED it, and/or did NOT understand it, then that MUST BE my fault. As explained I am only here, in this forum, to LEARN how to communicate better.

Logik
Posts: 3907
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Basta!

Post by Logik » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:47 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:45 pm
I am only here, in this forum, to LEARN how to communicate better.
Communication is cooperative. The process you continuously engage is not communication - it is cross-examination.

If you were actually communicating you would answer the question: "
In your Truthful view is this true or false: ∞ + 1 > ∞
Your refusal to answer clarifying questions about your views suggests you are not interested in learning to communicate.

You are lying about your intentions.

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Basta!

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:55 pm

uwot wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:24 pm
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:49 am
But then again I have NO credentials, and relatively NO scientific understanding, and thus am NOT worthy of even being listened to, correct?
Well Age, since you ask, no. It's much simpler than that. The reason you are not worth listening to is that you are a blithering half-wit who cannot understand that someone who describes their work as a series of stories is under no illusion that they are anything but stories.


So WHY write that the Universe IS expanding and that It STARTED?

Are these two things "stories" or "facts"?

And THANK YOU for ACCURATE description of 'me', from your perspective. These Truly Honest and OPEN answers are what I am LOOKING FOR when I ask clarifying questions.

uwot wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:24 pm
The only assumption I have made is that it might be possible for you to engage in a meaningful dialogue.
This readers is ANOTHER example of WHY it is BETTER to NEVER ASSUME ANY thing. They can so EASILY lead you astray.

Also, are you SURE that that ASSUMPTION is the ONLY one that you have made?
uwot wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:24 pm
This you have successfully demonstrated is not so.
Demonstrated to who?

Are you aware that the EXACT same accusation could be made in return?

Also, is 'me' the only thing that you wish to discuss, from that post I wrote?

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:00 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:39 pm
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:31 pm
Anyway, my answer is probably the exact same as yours is.
Why do you BELIEVE that?
But I do NOT BELIEVE that.

WHY do you KEEP asking me questions about what I BELIEVE?

Are you totally incapable of understanding that I NEITHER BELIEVE nor DISBELIEVE ANY thing, or are you forgetful, or is there some other reason?
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:39 pm
There is 50% probability that your answer is different to mine

At the MOMENT, when this and my last post in reply to your question is written, my answer IS the EXACT SAME as yours. But the reason I wrote probably IS because I do NOT know WHEN you, nor I, will change our answers.

Have you ALREADY changed your answer?

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Einstein on the train

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:11 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:42 pm
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:40 pm
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am

No, It's a intentional "fuck off" to somebody who refuses to cooperate.
Is this 'cooperative principle', which you linked to, a 'principle' you consider to be very important and it would be better followed?
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am
And I will demonstrate immediately.



In your ACTUAL TRUTHFUL VIEW is this true: ∞ + 1 > ∞

From here onward any avoidance to the above will earn you nothing but profanities and pejoratives :)
LOL do you THINK/BELIEVE I would really care?

Also, just so I KNOW I understand you correct, you WANT me to be cooperative and ANSWER your mathematical inequality example question, which OBVIOUSLY has NOTHING whatsoever to do with MY VIEW/S, but YET you will NOT answer ANY question I ask you, which IS specifically directed to the words you actually wrote down, and thus have STATED, is this correct?
OK. So you have a view on the infinities, but you are not prepared to answer clarifying questions about it.

Gotcha.

FUCK OFF :)
But I do NOT have a view on the "infinities". I have already asked you previously some thing about can you NOT YET distinguish the difference between 'infinity' and 'infinities'?

Are you still incapable of distinguishing between the two?

Also,
When it was written: An infinite universe can't get any bigger, it's already infinite.
You STATED: What you are describing is a BOUNDED, not an infinite universe.
I asked: How is saying 'infinite Universe' describing a BOUNDED universe?

I understand that you are totally incapable of explaining and/or elaborating on what you some times say and write, but if you are totally incapable of distinguishing between two very different things, are totally incapable of understanding I have NO beliefs, and totally incapable of answering an EXTREMELY simple question, like this one, regarding your very OWN thinking, then maybe its best you refrain from saying some things?

What do you think?

By the way what do you think you "gotcha" me with EXACTLY?

Age
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Basta!

Post by Age » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:21 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:47 pm
Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:45 pm
I am only here, in this forum, to LEARN how to communicate better.
Communication is cooperative. The process you continuously engage is not communication - it is cross-examination.
If you were actually communicating you would answer the question: "

But that is only YOUR perception of what 'communicating' is.

Also, that is NOT the "communicating" that I want to learn how to better communicate?

That type of communicating is a very self-absorbed, "gotcha" type of communicating, which is of NO REAL benefit to any one at all.
Logik wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:47 pm
In your Truthful view is this true or false: ∞ + 1 > ∞
Your refusal to answer clarifying questions about your views suggests you are not interested in learning to communicate.

You are lying about your intentions.
If that is what you WANT to BELIEVE, then so be it.

By the way it is very obvious to some of the readers that that question is NOT about my views at all.

In your Truthful view, How could an infinite Universe be BOUNDED? That IS, after all, YOUR ACTUAL VIEW.

Also, How could an infinite Universe expand? That is, after all, a view you may have.

Logik
Posts: 3907
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Basta!

Post by Logik » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:17 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:21 pm
But that is only YOUR perception of what 'communicating' is.
Since you are here to "learn to communicate", would you care to clarify your views on:

1. What learning is.
2. What communication is.

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