The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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chaz wyman
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by chaz wyman » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:55 pm

SecularCauses wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
SecularCauses wrote:While many people, including those here with philosophy backgrounds, despise atheists, let me explain why atheism is one of the best ideas going. Atheism rejects all superstitious claims and recognizes the truth of the matter, we really are on our own. No god will save us, hand us a magical cure, make our suffering go away. We are on our own, and because we are on our own, we are dependent on each other for our very survival. We must work together and find our own way, because there is no magical being in the sky who will do it for us.

As atheists, we believe that no ethics came from on high. We reject the idea that any people have been chosen, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, German, Greek, Hindu, etc. The way to knowledge is to use our ability to reason and explore the cosmos; and, therefore, every people may share equally in this discovery.

As atheists, we reject the idea that we may not question what people tell us about morality. We do not believe that morality has been set in stone by some magical being in the sky. We believe those making such claims are mistaken. That any person's opinion on morality is subject to question; that we even have an obligation to question, to improve upon ethics and morality. We believe that each of us has this right, that no one should have to bow down unquestioningly to someone claiming to be acting under orders of a higher authority. We reject fascism as a way of life, that one must blindly follow orders.

We believe that this life is more than likely all there is. Therefore, we should not waste the time we have on hateful bickering about superstitious nonsense, but get on with dealing with reality, which is the best shot we have at making all of our lives better.

We believe there is dignity in facing reality head on and not hiding behind myths to make us feel better about our lives and the threats we face. We believe the time has come to rid ourselves of religious divisions. The fighting among each other over whose "god" is the "right god" is a waste of energy we are all better off without. The struggle serves no legitimate purpose, because all of the contestants are wong, and there can be no winner in such a contest.

In short, we believe in restoring dignity to humanity. And what else is human dignity if not the human soul? It is the religious who want to rob you of your soul, not the atheists.
You believe you can speak for 'all' atheists, as if that's humanly possible. I think I'll have to ask my gay, black, Hispanic, atheist friend if she agrees with you. You say that you can restore all of human kinds souls, as if: they exist for 'certain,' it's humanly possible, and that it's only you that knows how (sorry, but I think you actually only speak for yourself). It sounds to me that your dogma is no different than theirs. Well at least with respect to how it reflects upon your psyche. Or is that reflections of your psyche, sorry but I get confused.

And so you think you know of the all of the universe??? As I see that: before one could make such claims, they'd have to.

Pardon me, if I don't vote for you. But of course you can live any way you want over in your corner, in your world, as I do in mine, as long as we neither, affect one another, nor anyone else, positively or negatively, first physically, then psychologically, and lastly philosophically, unless the person knowingly requests it of us. And then we can carry our solution to the grave, all by ourselves, all along the way patting ourselves on the back for being the only ones to have figured it 'all' out, I mean what is good for everyone else and all, you know, like restoring their human soul, and such!

Does that sound good to you, ...?

...Sorry but I forgot, what was your name, again?
Well, I'll note for the record no one has shown how my position is inconsistent with the atheist view. My statement does not make any allegation that souls are real, but you are too stupid to understand that. Not surprising.

My so-called "dogma" is based on the truth, while the religious hide behind lies. That is the point. If you find an atheist who disagrees wih me, then have them explain themselves.

And why would I want your vote when you are an anti-semitic idiot? The fact you don't like me is good. I would hate to get along, in any way, with a bigot.
Quite a telling statement. It seems that every one but you is anti-semitic.

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Khalid
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by Khalid » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:47 pm

SecularCauses wrote:It has nothing to do with us. The world is still a hostile place, no matter how enviro-friendly we become, earth is not designed for human habitation. The reason we survive in the numbers we have is not because the earth makes a perfect home, but because we used science to create technology. How many people would freeze to death this winter without modern technology?
If the world hadn't been designed for human habitation human civilization would have disappeared/extincted in the first centuries since the ages of primitive man who started to hunt animals to feed himself and started to know how to make fire , then started to fish , farm , harvest , adopt nature , make clothing , people started to increase and societies started to appeare , then they developed language and writing and then made ancient civilizations and the bases of a state like the ancient Egyptian , Chinease and greek civilization. How has he managed to do all that ? in an unsuitable environment or world ? Before the 21th century medication used to be natural plants , that was before machine and technology . And people could survive throughout history before technology and reach seven billion today . And from what do we extract medicine anyway? it's from God's plants , trees and animals . And who gave us the brain and the power of mind ? He's God .

That lame excuse for "evil" doesn't cut it. If your god is all-powerful, that means he could stop needless suffering. If he is all-knowing, it means he's aware of the needless suffering. If he's all good, then he would stop the needless suffering. If your religion has conned you into thinking that a good god gives children cancer, then you are warped by your false religion.
If I'll die of cancer one month later , then it's God destiny , he's the one who gave me life in the first place and I should be patient and be satisfied with God's destiny . This is the meaning of this life's test and this is the purity and kindness of faith .
Quoting from any writing proves nothing. It's circular reasoning that a small child can see through. How do you know allah exists? Because the koran says so. How do you know you can trust the koran? Because it was written by allah. In other words, you first have to assume allah exists before you can use the koran as proof for his existence. Lame.
I prefer to keep believing in God until I die and discover that it was delusion , rather than eat , drink and have sex till I die and find out that I was blind and find myself in eternal regret .

SecularCauses
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by SecularCauses » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:03 am

Khalid wrote:
If the world hadn't been designed for human habitation human civilization would have disappeared/extincted in the first centuries since the ages of primitive man who started to hunt animals to feed himself and started to know how to make fire , then started to fish , farm , harvest , adopt nature , make clothing , people started to increase and societies started to appeare , then they developed language and writing and then made ancient civilizations and the bases of a state like the ancient Egyptian , Chinease and greek civilization. How has he managed to do all that ? in an unsuitable environment or world ? Before the 21th century medication used to be natural plants , that was before machine and technology . And people could survive throughout history before technology and reach seven billion today . And from what do we extract medicine anyway? it's from God's plants , trees and animals . And who gave us the brain and the power of mind ? He's God .

That's not true at all. The fact is most life on this planet has gone extinct, including a number of humanoid branches. We appear to have been rather close to extinction a number of times, and we may go extinct in the not-too-distant future. The magnetic field for the earth, as an example, is weakening at a rate where there will be no human life, or any life, likely to survive on this earth in another 400 years. That's if its current rate of decline continues. We are likely to be wiped out when our galaxy collides with another, and our own sun is headed for a death as well, which means we shall all die, if we stay on earth. We survived only because we have successfully evolved brain power to survive in a hostile environment. A supernatural allah has nothing to do with it, and there is zero evidence to support such a claim.


That lame excuse for "evil" doesn't cut it. If your god is all-powerful, that means he could stop needless suffering. If he is all-knowing, it means he's aware of the needless suffering. If he's all good, then he would stop the needless suffering. If your religion has conned you into thinking that a good god gives children cancer, then you are warped by your false religion.

If I'll die of cancer one month later , then it's God destiny , he's the one who gave me life in the first place and I should be patient and be satisfied with God's destiny . This is the meaning of this life's test and this is the purity and kindness of faith .


You have zero evidence that god gave you life in the first place. I am STILL waiting for you, or any religious person, to refute my genetic arguments, if we were created, and did not evolve. You are merely assuming that whatever happens is god's will. That means all the people who were brutally murdered yesterday were brutally murdered at the hands of your god. That's not much of an argument.
Quoting from any writing proves nothing. It's circular reasoning that a small child can see through. How do you know allah exists? Because the koran says so. How do you know you can trust the koran? Because it was written by allah. In other words, you first have to assume allah exists before you can use the koran as proof for his existence. Lame.
I prefer to keep believing in God until I die and discover that it was delusion , rather than eat , drink and have sex till I die and find out that I was blind and find myself in eternal regret .
Saying that you prefer to delude yourself is again not much of an argument. By the way, god could be a rational thinker who assigns those humans who were irrational enough to believe in an irrational god-myth to the lowest depths of some hell. You have no way of ruling this possibility out, so even your delusion provides no guarantee of anything for certain, even if one accepts a supernatural realm.

Felasco
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by Felasco » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:50 pm

While many people, including those here with philosophy backgrounds, despise atheists, let me explain why atheism is one of the best ideas going.
Minor quibble: Arguing with atheists, and despising them, are rarely the same thing.
Atheism rejects all superstitious claims and recognizes the truth of the matter, we really are on our own.
Well, this is why so many people argue with atheists.

You are claiming to fly the flag of reason, and then you seem to dogmatically state something nobody could possibly know, at least at the current time, and most likely for at least centuries to come. You're essentially arguing with yourself.

And now you will most likely refuse to allow your own beliefs to even be called beliefs, let alone honestly subject them to the same examination that reason requires we apply to any assertion.

It's not that atheists are despised it's that, apologies, this is college sophomore stuff, it's essentially boring, and sometimes when people get bored, they may express their boredom in a less than fully diplomatic somewhat ornery manner, as um, I've just done. My bad, sorry bout that...

The truth of the matter, a more ruthless truth than atheism can claim, is that none of us know whether we're really on our own or not. There is no logical evidence basis upon which to claim that human beings are currently capable of knowing such a thing.

To complicate matters further, none of us are in a position to know whether any of us know or not, rendering my position worthless as well.

chaz wyman
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by chaz wyman » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:39 pm

Felasco wrote:
While many people, including those here with philosophy backgrounds, despise atheists, let me explain why atheism is one of the best ideas going.
Minor quibble: Arguing with atheists, and despising them, are rarely the same thing.
Atheism rejects all superstitious claims and recognizes the truth of the matter, we really are on our own.
Well, this is why so many people argue with atheists.

You are claiming to fly the flag of reason, and then you seem to dogmatically state something nobody could possibly know, at least at the current time, and most likely for at least centuries to come. You're essentially arguing with yourself.

And now you will most likely refuse to allow your own beliefs to even be called beliefs, let alone honestly subject them to the same examination that reason requires we apply to any assertion.

It's not that atheists are despised it's that, apologies, this is college sophomore stuff, it's essentially boring, and sometimes when people get bored, they may express their boredom in a less than fully diplomatic somewhat ornery manner, as um, I've just done. My bad, sorry bout that...

The truth of the matter, a more ruthless truth than atheism can claim, is that none of us know whether we're really on our own or not. There is no logical evidence basis upon which to claim that human beings are currently capable of knowing such a thing.

To complicate matters further, none of us are in a position to know whether any of us know or not, rendering my position worthless as well.
You are not one of these people that think Atheism is an untenable position are you?
Surely where there is doubt, atheism has to be the standard default position.
It's silly to hold onto to a I don't know to a thing that has no basis whatever.
I'm not agnostic about unicorns and fairies, so why would I claim to be agnostic about god?

Godfree
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by Godfree » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:08 am

Well done SecularCauses,
We have another man with a brain , that makes two now ,, awesome ,,!!!!
where have you been mate ,, see what these intellectual giants don't get , i
is "we" the Atheists need to get our shit together and present a united front .
as long as the Chaz's of this world are the atheists , the religious have no worries ,
what religion fears is a united atheism , and I would happily join SecularCauses church ,
sign me up I am a believer , Atheism is the hope the way and the light ,
the truth , reality , and the future ,
Question SC ,,how do "we" get the likes of chaz to understand the value of what we have in common as Atheists , far outways the arguments we have on specific details ,,???

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attofishpi
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by attofishpi » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:20 am

chaz wyman wrote:I'm not agnostic about unicorns and fairies, so why would I claim to be agnostic about god?
Because unicorns and fairies from an evolutionary standpoint have no reason for existence. An entity that judges whether you have a right to reincarnate and thus access limited resources...aka God, does....as i have argued many times.

Godfree
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by Godfree » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:00 am

attofishpi wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:I'm not agnostic about unicorns and fairies, so why would I claim to be agnostic about god?
Because unicorns and fairies from an evolutionary standpoint have no reason for existence. An entity that judges whether you have a right to reincarnate and thus access limited resources...aka God, does....as i have argued many times.
I think Atheists are conditioned by society not to challenge religion , this goes right back to the Crusades and burning witches at the stake , when we are surrounded by the religious , statements like "we" have proof the earth is over 4 billion years old , are simply not believed , if we say evolution is a fact not a theory , we will not be believed . Just as in religious circles if a religious person makes an untrue statement , such as god created the earth , this will be accepted as real . And a statement like god is not real , will be met with Chaz , claiming to be an Atheist , but standing in the way of promoting Atheism as a better concept , the religious will say things like , " you can't say that" , and so will the Chaz's of this world.
I believe a society based on Atheism would be infinitely better than one based on superstition, and I find it strange I have to fight those claiming to be a atheists ,
to try and promote Atheism as the replacement that society needs .
I have to question the honesty and intentions of such individuals ,
are they really Atheists , or is this just a trick to stop people promoting Atheism,,???

Felasco
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by Felasco » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:09 am

Surely where there is doubt, atheism has to be the standard default position.
When there is doubt, "I don't know" is the standard default position.

The problem with "I don't know" is of course that it's a poor vehicle for victory in competitive ego games, a primary driver of such conversations by both theists and atheists.

And so "I don't know" is quickly discarded by passionate partisans on all sides of the issue, which is mostly likely what will happen in whatever post follows this one.

Godfree
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by Godfree » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:36 am

Felasco wrote:
Surely where there is doubt, atheism has to be the standard default position.
When there is doubt, "I don't know" is the standard default position.

The problem with "I don't know" is of course that it's a poor vehicle for victory in competitive ego games, a primary driver of such conversations by both theists and atheists.

And so "I don't know" is quickly discarded by passionate partisans on all sides of the issue, which is mostly likely what will happen in whatever post follows this one.
default ,,?? ,,strange , lets start with a blank page , and we will call that page reality ,
if someone wants to put a god on that page , it is up to them to prove it .
the world seems to be suffering from some sort of delusion that god is a given ,
and we the Atheists have to prove it doesn't exist , that's just wrong ,
whoever wants to claim god exists , it is up to them to show the proof ,
and of course they have NONE , no proof whatsoever ,,

chaz wyman
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by chaz wyman » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:40 am

attofishpi wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:I'm not agnostic about unicorns and fairies, so why would I claim to be agnostic about god?
Because unicorns and fairies from an evolutionary standpoint have no reason for existence.

Exactly - and neither has God. If there were a God then unicorns and fairies would be possible too.


An entity that judges whether you have a right to reincarnate and thus access limited resources...aka God, does....as i have argued many times.
And you can't see how you are arguing against yourself?

chaz wyman
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by chaz wyman » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:41 am

Godfree wrote:Well done SecularCauses,
We have another man with a brain , that makes two now ,, awesome ,,!!!!
where have you been mate ,, see what these intellectual giants don't get , i
is "we" the Atheists need to get our shit together and present a united front .
as long as the Chaz's of this world are the atheists , the religious have no worries ,
what religion fears is a united atheism , and I would happily join SecularCauses church ,
sign me up I am a believer , Atheism is the hope the way and the light ,
the truth , reality , and the future ,
Question SC ,,how do "we" get the likes of chaz to understand the value of what we have in common as Atheists , far outways the arguments we have on specific details ,,???
When atheism becomes a Faith based belief, then it is time to jettison it with the other religions.

You might call yourself and Atheist, I am atheistic. I have nothing in common with you.

Felasco
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by Felasco » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:48 am

Exactly - and neither has God. If there were a God then unicorns and fairies would be possible too.
I can demonstrate the existence of unicorns and fairies, especially my favorite, the Invisible Pink Unicorn (HOLY BE HIS NAME!) should that be of interest.

Felasco
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by Felasco » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:56 am

default ,,?? ,,strange , lets start with a blank page , and we will call that page reality ,
If someone claims they understand that there is a god, or claim they understand there is no god, in each case the burden is on them to show how they are qualified to know such a thing.

In each case, it's a ridiculously HUGE claim. It's hard to think of a larger claim.

chaz wyman
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Re: The Atheist Movement Will Restore the Human Soul

Post by chaz wyman » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:04 pm

Felasco wrote:
Exactly - and neither has God. If there were a God then unicorns and fairies would be possible too.
I can demonstrate the existence of unicorns and fairies, especially my favorite, the Invisible Pink Unicorn (HOLY BE HIS NAME!) should that be of interest.
~Is the invisible Pink unicorn the one you keep down your trousers? If so I'd rather remain in ignorance.

I've not an interesting Bowl of Spaghetti with the face of God in it - are you interested to see it?

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