Is becoming like God good or evil?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Is becoming like God good or evil?

I would like to restrict giving God any other attribute except for knowing good and evil in this thread. Just for simplicity.

I have two quotes I would like you to consider.

“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil.”

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Knowing good and evil is the same as developing or gaining a moral sense. This is something that all governments and religions wish to develop in us and seems like a good idea to me.

If being perfect like God means that we must have the knowledge of good and evil, then Adam and Eve had to eat of the tree of knowledge ---- if they were to accomplish what most seem to think is a worthy goal. Morals. As God says in Eden, such is to have your eyes opened. A good thing IOW.

In the Jewish view, A & E did the right thing and they name it our elevation. In the Christian view, they did the wrong thing and call it our fall.

Is becoming as Gods, in the moral sense, good or evil?

If evil, please explain what is evil about developing a moral sense and following scriptures that tell us to be as Gods.

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DL
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Resha Caner
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Resha Caner »

Greatest I am wrote:If being perfect like God means that we must have the knowledge of good and evil, then Adam and Eve had to eat of the tree of knowledge
Here is the key statement that you made. You are assuming that being perfect means being like God, and further than it means a knowledge of good and evil. Such is not the case.

If I draw a perfect circle, does that mean it is like God? That it knows good and evil? No, it only means that, given a point, the curve drawn is exactly a distance r from that point.
Mike Strand
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Mike Strand »

I think Greatest I am is defining God as that Being who knows good and evil, and is also making the supposition that God is perfect in this knowledge. At least, this is how I interpret the basis from which GIA is writing.

Therefore, to become more like God is to learn about good and evil (whatever those words mean). Can we ever know this perfectly (again, "perfect" needs definition)? Let's say "perfect" means "complete" -- thus by this line of reasoning, God is perfect by having a complete knowledge of good and evil.

It's an open question, even under this system of argument, whether a human being can ever attain this kind of perfection (complete knowledge of good and evil). The Mormon religion believes in eternal progression, which means a human being can get closer and closer to being god-like but never achieve ultimate Godhood. However, a person according to Mormonism can become an "under-god", even with his or her own world. Urantianism, which may be viewed as a sophisticated brand of Mormon theology, also says that the Trinity of the Bible is the godhead of this earth, but is not the ultimate Godhead. Not sure if Mormons view things this way.

It appears by this line of reasoning that Adam and Eve were making progress by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and from there, according to the Bible legends, they and their progeny had pretty rough lives. But who said becoming more like god is easy? Is ignorance bliss?

Another issue raised by this reasoning: Is having the knowledge of good and evil, thus having a moral sense, the same as choosing good instead of evil and being or acting according to good rather than evil? Judging by the thoughts and actions attributed to God by the Hebrew Bible, one wonders.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Resha Caner wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:If being perfect like God means that we must have the knowledge of good and evil, then Adam and Eve had to eat of the tree of knowledge
Here is the key statement that you made. You are assuming that being perfect means being like God, and further than it means a knowledge of good and evil. Such is not the case.

If I draw a perfect circle, does that mean it is like God? That it knows good and evil? No, it only means that, given a point, the curve drawn is exactly a distance r from that point.
If you are correct, then, in the myth, who wrote the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

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DL
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Mike

You base your comments on the idea that we cannot reach God's level of thought and knowledge of good and evil yet the story itself tells us that we can. God's own words ---they have become as Gods, knowing good and evil.

I can understand your view of progressive steps up Jacob's ladder of knowledge, so to speak, but scriptures just skipped telling us the obvious and went to the end result of A & E accomplishing it or reaching the top.

Regards
DL
Mike Strand
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Mike Strand »

Thanks for your response, Greatest.

The idea of eternal progression, held by Mormons and Urantians and maybe other thinkers/believers: Not my view, but as good as any other religious view, being based on faith. Mainstream Christians think it's blasphemy to claim we can ever be like God -- they say the best we can hope for is salvation (which means I guess, sort of ... being with God in heaven, but still human-like).

"We have become as Gods ...." . I think this is just a simile, as when you see a man beating up another man, and you say "He fought like a demon!" Whoever said "we have become as Gods" may well have also felt that gods have other greater-than-human powers, and also a better knowledge of good and evil than people do.

This doesn't take away from the value of this topic. Depending on how God is defined or conceived, various interesting implications can be drawn. For example, if God, as commonly conceived, is the Creator of everything, loves humanity, and has more power and knowledge than any other force, being or entity, one can argue that every single human being will be saved, sooner or later. Thus all such believers, whether they are Christian or Muslim or other religion, have no real justification to feel more worthy than other such believers.

Whether a person can become a god is another matter, requiring further assumptions and arguments.
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

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Greatest I am wrote:If you are correct, then, in the myth, who wrote the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
The way you phrased your question hints that there may be some misunderstandings here, but with that said, the answer would be that God created the tree. Why do you ask?
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Mike Strand wrote:Thanks for your response, Greatest.

The idea of eternal progression, held by Mormons and Urantians and maybe other thinkers/believers: Not my view, but as good as any other religious view, being based on faith. Mainstream Christians think it's blasphemy to claim we can ever be like God -- they say the best we can hope for is salvation (which means I guess, sort of ... being with God in heaven, but still human-like).

"We have become as Gods ...." . I think this is just a simile, as when you see a man beating up another man, and you say "He fought like a demon!" Whoever said "we have become as Gods" may well have also felt that gods have other greater-than-human powers, and also a better knowledge of good and evil than people do.

This doesn't take away from the value of this topic. Depending on how God is defined or conceived, various interesting implications can be drawn. For example, if God, as commonly conceived, is the Creator of everything, loves humanity, and has more power and knowledge than any other force, being or entity, one can argue that every single human being will be saved, sooner or later. Thus all such believers, whether they are Christian or Muslim or other religion, have no real justification to feel more worthy than other such believers.

Whether a person can become a god is another matter, requiring further assumptions and arguments.
Yes. It all depends on how you define God.

I do not agree with your, " Thus all such believers, whether they are Christian or Muslim or other religion, have no real justification to feel more worthy than other such believers. "

This following speaks to believer or not.
We are all at different mental levels and some are more worthy than others. We are equal under the law, sure, but we are not equal. Some are retarded or just not too bright while others are brighter than most.

As we evolve the fittest will always win out over the less fit.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Resha Caner wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:If you are correct, then, in the myth, who wrote the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
The way you phrased your question hints that there may be some misunderstandings here, but with that said, the answer would be that God created the tree. Why do you ask?
Because of this. " You are assuming that being perfect means being like God, and further than it means a knowledge of good and evil. Such is not the case."

I was just going by what scriptures say.

If God knows good and evil, and scriptures indicate that he does as he wrote the tree of knowledge, then if we are to emulate him, we too must have that knowledge.

You say that that is not the case.

How can you be like God without knowing what he knows?
Impossible.

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DL
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Resha Caner »

Greatest I am wrote:How can you be like God without knowing what he knows?
The section of Genesis to which you refer (as well as other passages) makes it clear that it would be wrong to try to "be like God." Therefore, you are either confused or you are trying to demonstrate a contradiction in the Bible. I'm not sure which is your intent.
Greatest I am wrote:I was just going by what scriptures say.
I'm not sure you are. Which passages do you think express this directive to "emulate" God?
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Greatest I am wrote:Mike

You base your comments on the idea that we cannot reach God's level of thought and knowledge of good and evil yet the story itself tells us that we can. God's own words ---they have become as Gods, knowing good and evil.
Can you prove that these are a Gods own words?


I can understand your view of progressive steps up Jacob's ladder of knowledge, so to speak, but scriptures just skipped telling us the obvious and went to the end result of A & E accomplishing it or reaching the top.

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DL
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Resha Caner wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:How can you be like God without knowing what he knows?
The section of Genesis to which you refer (as well as other passages) makes it clear that it would be wrong to try to "be like God." Therefore, you are either confused or you are trying to demonstrate a contradiction in the Bible. I'm not sure which is your intent.
Greatest I am wrote:I was just going by what scriptures say.
I'm not sure you are. Which passages do you think express this directive to "emulate" God?
Is God not to be our model?

Are we not to follow his example?

John 15:7

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DL
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Mike

You base your comments on the idea that we cannot reach God's level of thought and knowledge of good and evil yet the story itself tells us that we can. God's own words ---they have become as Gods, knowing good and evil.
Can you prove that these are a Gods own words?


I can understand your view of progressive steps up Jacob's ladder of knowledge, so to speak, but scriptures just skipped telling us the obvious and went to the end result of A & E accomplishing it or reaching the top.

Regards
DL
Hell no. FMPOV bible God is a myth.
I can show that the bible has put those words in his mouth though and that is the issue. Not God's existence.

The issue is whether A & E were right to ignore God's command to stay as dumb as cows and without a moral sense.

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DL
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by Resha Caner »

Greatest I am wrote:Is God not to be our model?

Are we not to follow his example?

John 15:7
Neither your rhetoric nor the verse you quoted seems to support your position. You'll need to be a bit more verbose - explain yourself.
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Re: Is becoming like God good or evil?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Greatest I am wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Mike

You base your comments on the idea that we cannot reach God's level of thought and knowledge of good and evil yet the story itself tells us that we can. God's own words ---they have become as Gods, knowing good and evil.
Can you prove that these are a Gods own words?


I can understand your view of progressive steps up Jacob's ladder of knowledge, so to speak, but scriptures just skipped telling us the obvious and went to the end result of A & E accomplishing it or reaching the top.

Regards
DL
Hell no. FMPOV bible God is a myth.
I can show that the bible has put those words in his mouth though and that is the issue. Not God's existence.

The issue is whether A & E were right to ignore God's command to stay as dumb as cows and without a moral sense.

Regards
DL
Wow, now you've got my head spinning. So am I to understand that I'm supposed to judge the fictitious words of a book against other fictitious words in the book, when I have absolutely no belief in any of these words in the book, so as to come up with something non fictitious, or should my solution be fictitious as well, you know, so as to remain consistent.
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