In the Beginning...

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Bill Wiltrack
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In the Beginning...

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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...................................................................................Man Created God...








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Image


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In His Own Image.







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..nameless..
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by ..nameless.. »

"Methinks thou protesteth overmuch!" - WS
Hanuman
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by Hanuman »

Yeah. Started thinking about this when the question was broached by XTC in the song "Dear God", back when I was just starting high school.
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John
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by John »

"if triangles had a god, they would give him three sides"
- Montesquieu

Hardly an original point so has someone got a new take on it?
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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.....................................Image













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..nameless..
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by ..nameless.. »

John wrote:"if triangles had a god, they would give him three sides"
- Montesquieu

Hardly an original point so has someone got a new take on it?
Hi John.
The triangles would be 'correct'!
If 'God' is as defined, 'Omni-', that would be all inclusive of every moment of existence, all Reality, all Truth...
We are One Omni- 'Self!'!

We are all unique Conscious Perspectives (Souls)!
Every Perspective is unique every moment of existence!

The First Law of Soul Dynamics;
"For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!"

As the entire Universe is Consciousness;

"Consciousness is the ground of all being!" - Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics

all We/Universe can be Conscious of is 'Self!'!
One Omni- 'Self!'!

All that exists, is perceived, is 'God', individually and collectively! Omni-!

The 'self' that the triangle perceives, is a feature of the One Reality, 'God' (as well as anything that is perceived by any Perspective).

If I look at the triangle, or you, or anything, I perceive (a 'limited' (by this Perspective), feature of ) God!
The triangle would be more 'right on the money' than the person using that analogy to attempt to discredit man's notions of man's notions of 'God'!
Everything is True!
Any and everything that is perceived is a real feature of the One all inclusive Reality, of 'God'!!
Last edited by ..nameless.. on Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Arising_uk
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by Arising_uk »

..nameless.. wrote:... Everything is True!
If everything was true how would we know? Surely we need at least the contradictions to know that some things are not?
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

...shall only be understood in the end.
..nameless..
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by ..nameless.. »

Arising_uk wrote:
..nameless.. wrote:... Everything is True!
If everything was true how would we know? Surely we need at least the contradictions to know that some things are not?
Hello Arising.
Not anything "are not"! Everything Is! Everything exists, is Real!

If someone told you about being able to fly in metal machines to the moon, that could have certainly been met with derision and attack! What foolishness.
It can't be done!! (True enough, it can't be done by them at that time in that place!)
It is also true that the feat could well be, IS accomplished! That is also true!
Simultaneously!

We all (unique Conscious Perspectives/Souls) see 'momentary' features of the One Reality at any moment of existence.
It is ego/thought that imagines the 'reality' that we, indiviually perceive to be the only real one as we can perceive no other. It has been a feature of ego to divide (natural limitations of Perspective) that which is One.
Fragmentation of that which is One is schizophrenia. By the ego, in thought, we think other Perspectives bad/wrong/false/evil... All a matter of ego/thought.
"Zey must be taught de truth!"
Homo-schizo-sapiens has been wreaking their mad violence upon the Universe throughout their/our existence!
All that deadly 'believed 'duality'. Yes, every duality is true! It's own unique Perspective reveals it to Consciousness.
The sum total of every perceived moment of existence = complete Universe/Nature/God/'Self!'...
Every perception is True, a feature of Truth (all inclusive)! No one, no Perspective, not you, not me, not a rock, can be 'discarded' without altering the entirety of existence, Reality as it Is!
Now that we know (perceive) that any profered statement can be found to be true (try it!), if we stop egoically arguing it's existence (reinventing the wheel; everything 'exists'!), we can begin to find the context, and there is always, always, a way to find the context in this unimaginably inconceivably vast ('Self!') Reality, where the perception is found to be True!
A particular toxic waste of Western 'philosophy' is that something must be either true or false, that nothing can be both true and false at the same time... We know better now!
'Knowledge' is "that which is perceived"! Everything!
Our knowledge of 'Self!'/Universe/Reality can thus grow together, as we do (we all 'heal' together), and realize/perceive that we all exist, that we are all uniquely real, that we all perceive a unique feature of Reality that no one else can ever! perceive but you, Now! Here! We will all realize that we are all One Omni- 'Self!'!/Reality, as we heal from the schizophrenia which is the violent hallmark of our species.
Rather than continuing our schizo-heritage of fighting over who is 'right', 'true', 'correct', 'evil'... and never finding that (chrono-synclastic infundibulum) 'place' where all is 'perceived' to be True, all apparent opposites are brought together as the One that we all are!

"For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!" - The First Law of Soul Dynamics

"Every kind of partial and transitory disequilibrium must perforce contribute towards the great equilibrium of the whole.." - Rene' Guenon

Try it! Do the experiment!
Every time that your little red of "That's BS!!!" light goes on, axiomatically accept that it is true and find that Perspective wherin it's Truth may be perceived!
It WORKS! Personal limitations vanish! Every question's answer can be perceived! Proficiency grants 'access' to all Perspectives, all Knowledge, ever! Now!

There's a new world a'bornin' brother!
It is/will be refered to as the Golden Age of Consciousness! Everyone will be 'Enlightened'!
Everyone will naturally;
"Do what you know to be right, say what you know to be true, and leave with faith and patience the consequences to god!" - F.W. Robertson

"Do NOT do to 'others' what you don't want done to you!"
(EVERYTHING in the Universe, ALL INCLUSIVE, is 'others'!!!)

Imagine!
peace
Metazoan
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by Metazoan »

Hi ..nameless..,
..nameless.. wrote:... Everything is True!
Therefore your theory is wrong.

Proven by your own theory.

Cool.

http://www.xkcd.com/704/

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..nameless..
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by ..nameless.. »

Metazoan wrote:Hi ..nameless..,
..nameless.. wrote:... Everything is True!
Therefore your theory is wrong.

Proven by your own theory. Cool.
And that is exactly true!
Everything is True!
As perceived by you, from 'that' Perspective', my theory is 'wrong'! 'Right' and 'wrong' are a matter of Perspective, as we know, and;
It is ALSO True, that;

The First Law of Soul Dynamics;
"For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!"

Which means that, looking at the same One Reality (in this instance, my 'theory') it is being perceived as True at the exact moment that it is being perceived as false.
One Perspective perceives the same Reality as any and every unique Perspective. We perceive Reality as it is! Now! All Reality is by definition, True! Everything exists! Everything is Real! Everything is True! Many Perspectives of the One Truth!

Ponder the great winter cloud; it covers the sky, is cold, dark, slightly threatening...
Now imagine that you are in an airplane, rising through the cloud.
From the cold darkness beneath the cloud, into the cloud, it gets a bit brighter and brighter until you burst through the top!
It is breathtaking how blue the sky above, the sun dazzling in its brilliant glare off the topside of our cloud! Brilliant white with not a shadow to give hint of it's other side, or the vast number of shades of 'grey' in between.
Now imagine that there are billions and trillions of folks (Perspectives) all around and throughout the cloud, at the same moment!
If asked to describe the cloud, all Perspectives would describe that which he uniquely perceives; one declares the cloud dark and cold, another would declare it's brilliance, one a particular shade of grey, and so forth.
They all describe One Cloud! One Reality!
No Perspective is 'wrong', yet, ignorantly, we do fight so over who is 'right', while everyone else is 'wrong'.
Yet the complete cloud is fully defined, described, by the sum total of all the unique Perspectives!
All these different Perspectives perceiving the same One Reality!
If you listen for argument, you find argument, if you listen for truth, you find truth!
Any particular reason for me to follow one more link?

I don't even know if you were seeking a thoughtful reply, or that was a glib attempt at wit, but it's not up to me, I just write what I must.
peace
chaz wyman
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by chaz wyman »

Nothing is true to all, but only true to some.
There is no way to perfectly express reality as language is bounded by the limitations of difference.
Thus all expressions of truth are poor facsimiles of correspondence.
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Arising_uk
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by Arising_uk »

..nameless.. wrote:Hello Arising.
Not anything "are not"! Everything Is! Everything exists, is Real! ...
I'm not questioning that everything, if it is a thing, exists. I'm questioning that everything is true. As some thing can exist and not exist at the same time is not and can never be true, so everything is true is not true.
..nameless..
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by ..nameless.. »

Arising_uk wrote:
..nameless.. wrote:Hello Arising.
Not anything "are not"! Everything Is! Everything exists, is Real! ...
I'm not questioning that everything, if it is a thing, exists.

"Everything, if it is a 'thing'"?
By definition, everything means ALL! Period. Whether you accept 'thoughts' as things or 'dreams' as things or 'farts' as things... whatever 'exclusive definitions' you might find, are subsets of the complete set of everything - all in existence. Every'thing'!
I'm questioning that everything is true.
Ok, lets play 'definition'.
Again, the all inclusive definitions are also called Universal Laws!
I find Truth to be definitionally congruent with;
Reality is everything that exists! Ever!
Everything exists!
Everything is Real!
I see Truth as meaningful when 'grounded' in that which Exists, that which is Real!
If Truth is Congruent with an all inclusive Existence and an all inclusive Reality, truth must be all inclusive also! By definition!
That is the all inclusive complete 'set'! There are numerous 'sub-sets' that exhibit all manner of 'exclusivity', such as; it's only 'true' if it is... wet! Everything else is a lie!
2 + 2 = 4 only under certain conditions!
That is exclusivity.
A very local theory.
But put them/us all together, all us (Conscious Perspectives) unique features of existence/Reality/Truth, and the sum of the parts is all Existence, the complete Universe, Reality, Truth, One Omni- 'Self!'!

That which is perceived exists!
That which exists is perceived!
Not a thing exists that is not perceived!
Not a thing is perceived that does not exist!
(There is no, nor can there be, any evidence to the contrary!)
All inclusive!!!

"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
ALL INCLUSIVE!!!

Of course, the 'Complete Set' and the 'subsets' are one and the same, but can only Know 'Self!' (set) through 'Perspectives' (us).
All that is perceived is 'Self!'!
As some thing can exist and not exist at the same time
'Truth' is not 'falsifiable'!
There is not anything to not not exist!
All that Is, is Existence! There is no philosophy or science with the evidence and philosophy to support such a claim as 'non-existence'.
They ALL end in paradox!
is not and can never be true, so everything is true is not true.
Yes!
'True' and 'not true' exist in that one must define the other, that they 'contrast each other, context!
All the 'subsets' of Truth, all the 'exclusive' definitions of Truth, can be perceived in context with each other; in a base ten system, under other exclusions while balancing on one's appendix, 2+2=4! One subset of Truth, 2+2=4. That is because there are other 'bases', other numeric systems, other temperatures in which another truth is that 2+2=1 (all appropriate exclusivities apply)... All the baby chicks all nestled safely beneath the wing of the Dragon!
Uh...
The 'Complete Set', 'Existence', 'Truth', 'Reality, 'God', 'Tao', 'Buddha', whatever sits pretty with you... 'Nature'.. whatever... 'Self!'!... has no context!
And therein lies the rub! *__-
This is how true and false are two Perspectives of an unknowable (by any 'subset') and are both simultaneously True! Truth is Truth and False is Truth!
It's ALL True, my friend!
Metazoan
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Re: In the Beginning...

Post by Metazoan »

Hi ..nameless..,
..nameless.. wrote:I don't even know if you were seeking a thoughtful reply, or that was a glib attempt at wit,...
Both, defiantly both.

I am grateful for your reply.
..nameless.. wrote:... but it's not up to me, I just write what I must.
Me too.
..nameless.. wrote:Any particular reason for me to follow one more link?
There was a reason I posted it. Could I have avoided posting it?

Are you suggesting that you have a choice whether you follow it or not, or even that we have any degrees of freedom whatsoever? :wink:


While I see that my interpretation of what you are saying does correlate well with what I think a Theory of Everything may suggest, I do not see anything in your writings that proposes an underlying mechanism from which your model is derived.

Does your model give you any way to get a handle on the nature of consciousness?
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