Science , Fiction or Fact

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Godfree
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Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:41 pm

Are we living in age of science fantasy ,
if we look at where we have come from ,
entrenched in superstition myth and fantasy ,
it would be no surprise if we are still drawn to these in the form of science .
I remember it was only a year or so ago in the tv ,
some religious guy was claiming Noahs ark , and spending big bucks on the search for it .
Noahs ark is a joke , he shouldn't have been given a cent , been believed or indulged in any way ,
it's just so obvious to someone who lives in the real world ,
that Noahs ark is an impossible story , it can't, didn't happen ,!!!
how much have they spent looking for Nessy ,
which is completely impossible ,
the lack of any logic , what would the large family of breeding dinosaurs ,!
eat , in such a small space ,???
But no the world keeps playing these funny games ,
like the jury is still out about religion , Nessy , aliens ,
nobody knows , therefore nobody gets offended ,
it's all just one big fantasy land and anything goes ,
it's like people just can't grow up , won't be told NO ,,!!
they think superstitious fantasy rubbish to have the same credibility as things like evolution and infinity .
because they simply can't tell the difference,,??
or because they don't care , keeping the fantasy alive ,
is more important than anything ...

Godfree
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:09 pm

Things I would ad to the fiction pile ,
Scientology ,
Homeopathy ,
the BBT,
the universe is finite ,
there was a beginning ,
intelligent design ,
and of course anything religious ,,!!

Godfree
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:20 pm

Whats wrong with the story of Noahs ark ,
it's not true and we can prove it .!!
the studies done on DNA have revealed the age of species ,
how big and old their family tree is .
if Noahs ark was true , there would be a whole lot of short family trees with
small histories . All pointing back to a moment in our recent past .
and this is simply not the case ,
the average animal , ie sheep or cow , has a family tree of about 1.5 million years long , old / big .
then we ad to that the knowledge that two animals is not enough to restart a healthy population from ,!!!
and the story sounds and is pathetic .
How could it be that people still think it's real ,
the jury is not out , we can prove it's wrong ,
they don't want to know ,
we can show them the evidence and they refuse to see it ,
the bible tells lies , but the people don't care .
they will defend those lies and ignorance , forever .
Is this our future , real knowledge being embraced by a small minority while the vast majority stay entrenched in their madness ,???
it certainly seems many are planning on that being the case ...
lots of politicians are banking their careers on it .
truth and reality don't even come into it anymore , show me the money ,
religion is a big cash cow and politicians will milk it till it drops .

Godfree
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:01 pm

Aliens would be another good example of science myth ,
Sure we can argue that aliens probably exist somewhere in the universe ,
and that we might build space craft one day that takes us into deep space ,
but the aliens are so far away they will probably never arrive here ,
and we will never reach there ,
it's just too far .
My maths is pretty bad but going on a calculation for Voyager ,
in 30 years it's traveled 15 light days ,
24 times 15 gives us a light year ,
24 times 30 ,=720 years to go one light year ,
and our nearest star is 4 light years away ,
the nearest life could be millions of light years away,
so we wouldn't go to a place in space , we could only build a craft ,
to live in space .
generation upon generation living and breeding in space in the hope that one year they might find other life or a habitable planet.
and it would be the same for life coming here ,
if they found their way here , it would have been a long journey ,
started hundreds if not thousands of years ago ,
the first thing they would want to do is make meaningful communication ,
after spending thousands of years drifting through space wouldn't you,,??

ochaye
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by ochaye » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:43 pm

Godfree wrote: Noahs ark is a joke , he shouldn't have been given a cent , been believed or indulged in any way ,
it's just so obvious to someone who lives in the real world ,
that Noahs ark is an impossible story , it can't, didn't happen ,!!!
Quite so. Philosophers ask whether the book of Genesis in which it is found is worth any attention, or whether it may contain allegorical material, specifically story myths, that, while not intended to be understood literally, were nevertheless deemed important defining factors in the societies that wrote them. The general consensus is that Genesis from chapter one to around chapter eleven is comprised entirely of such myths, the chronology of the culture that produced them beginning in chapter eleven.

Godfree
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:21 pm

ochaye wrote:
Godfree wrote: Noahs ark is a joke , he shouldn't have been given a cent , been believed or indulged in any way ,
it's just so obvious to someone who lives in the real world ,
that Noahs ark is an impossible story , it can't, didn't happen ,!!!
Quite so. Philosophers ask whether the book of Genesis in which it is found is worth any attention, or whether it may contain allegorical material, specifically story myths, that, while not intended to be understood literally, were nevertheless deemed important defining factors in the societies that wrote them. The general consensus is that Genesis from chapter one to around chapter eleven is comprised entirely of such myths, the chronology of the culture that produced them beginning in chapter eleven.
So why didn't somebody explain this to the dude looking for the ark ,
there are so many who take the bible literally , a fundamentalist .
why doesn't somebody explain to them it's myth ,???
is creation a myth ,
was there a beginning ,???
is god a myth ,???
which bits aren't myth ,
we know Jesus was a man ,
isn't the rest myth ,,!!!

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attofishpi
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by attofishpi » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:22 am

Godfree wrote:We know Jesus was a man ,
isn't the rest myth ,,!!!
Oh...congratulations for acknowledging some know.ledge

Lets say you were a very very naughty boy. Lets say you broke every commandment. Lets say God existed and you were tortured by 'His' evil will.

Who you gonna try and have faith in? Who is your big out, the big answer to the covenant?

Godfree
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:20 pm

attofishpi wrote:
Godfree wrote:We know Jesus was a man ,
isn't the rest myth ,,!!!
Oh...congratulations for acknowledging some know.ledge

Lets say you were a very very naughty boy. Lets say you broke every commandment. Lets say God existed and you were tortured by 'His' evil will.

Who you gonna try and have faith in? Who is your big out, the big answer to the covenant?
I'm a very naughty boy for sure , but gods not going to spank me ,
because god doesn't exist ,
I don't need an out , I don't need somebody/thing to have faith in ,
reality is , there is zero proof for the existence of god heaven or hell ,
no religious scripture has any proof that anything supernatural or god like magic has ever happened .
zero proof ,
I believe it was Bertrand Russel who said ,
"that which can be asserted without proof , can be equally dismissed without proof "
until religion comes up with some proof , don't waste my time ,,,!!!

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attofishpi
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by attofishpi » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:17 am

Godfree wrote:because god doesn't exist
You are wrong.

We are all pupils of the light... :shock:

The proof is entirely in the English language...the manifested language that is now the common protocol of planet Earth.

The evidence is on its way.

Godfree
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:40 pm

attofishpi wrote:
Godfree wrote:because god doesn't exist
You are wrong.

We are all pupils of the light... :shock:

The proof is entirely in the English language...the manifested language that is now the common protocol of planet Earth.

The evidence is on its way.
The proof is in the English ,??or the proof is on it's way ,,??
give me one bit of proof , just one , I will become a christian tomorrow if you can give just one piece of proof that gods or heaven exist ,
if you can't find any proof , give me your best reason why you believe such nonsense , your irrational rationale for choosing such fantasy ...

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attofishpi
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by attofishpi » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:13 am

Godfree wrote:The proof is in the English ,??or the proof is on it's way ,,??
give me one bit of proof , just one , I will become a christian tomorrow if you can give just one piece of proof that gods or heaven exist ,
if you can't find any proof , give me your best reason why you believe such nonsense , your irrational rationale for choosing such fantasy ...
SIN_AI

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John
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by John » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:08 pm

attofishpi wrote:The evidence is on its way.
Is that the theological equivalent of "the cheque's in the post?"

Godfree
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:36 pm

John wrote:
attofishpi wrote:The evidence is on its way.
Is that the theological equivalent of "the cheque's in the post?"
maybe atto is waiting for the second coming ,
don't hold your breath , my mum who's 87 was told the same nonsense when she was a child ,
and every generation since the silly bible was written,
one thing I have noticed ,
is the religious amongst us , talk in riddles and avoid saying what their belief system is . I'm happy to explain I'm an Atheist , and proud of it ,
religious have threads about the "truth" and try and rationalize that everything is true ,
even religion ,
when any adult with a brain can see it is hearsay , fantasy ,
and of no value ...

Hanuman
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Hanuman » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:11 am

I first "crossed-over" to seriously doubting the existence of God, one night when I was on acid, back in college. Since then, I've taken the brain, I was told was given to me by my creator, and done my best to come to some sort of conclusion on the subject. SPOILER ALERT: God hasn't been winning.

Bible (Old Testament): While the bible is often cited as the word of God (written by man), there are a ton of things in there that are not quite God-like. First, God seems to be a mass murderer if you happen to be born into the wrong family (i.e. death of the first born son, Noah's Ark, the Red Sea waters return after parting for Moses, to drown his pursuers, etc.). Second, God seems to have emotions which are ungod-like, but are actually quite human. He's a betting man (Job). He gets angry in several situations, as well as bi-polar, and vengeful (Noah, Adam & Eve, Lot's wife, Moses beating the stone twice, and of course Revelations). He seems to have a self-esteem issue, demanding that people believe in him and no other gods (1st commandment), and demanding obedience to him and his rules.

In addition, I saw this a few years back, but didn't know where it was from. Assuming the source is correct (http://www.gotquestions.org/theodicy.html) it is from Epicurus, a Greek philosopher,

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Some people might question the second point, throwing up the free-will argument. And I'll admit, that stumped me for a while, as well. However, having been around many mentally ill people, I have to question the idea of free will. Why would someone choose physically and mentally self-destructive behavior? I'm not talking about you go out and get bombed the night before a big test or work day. I'm talking about, I think I'll walk outside and blow some strangers head off for the hell of it. Or, I'm so depressed I think it's a good idea to cut myself. Psychology has all but proven that human behavior can be predicted in many situations with a high degree of accuracy. Possibly, free will is present on some level, but, I believe, the vast majority of our actions are determined by genetics, our background, our education, and previous experiences.

Lastly, the concept of heaven and hell. I know this is in the bible, but most religions have added on to it so much it bears separating. In addition, this is what finally made me "cross-over" to being a non-believer, at least in anything associated with Western religion. The question I asked myself is how could a benevolent, all-powerful god put me here on earth, give me this brain and personality that has the power and desire to question the logic of things, give me no credible and tangible evidence of his existence, and put me to a trial of if I choose to not believe in him OR if I do not follow his teachings (which are blurred by the existence of so many religions/cults), then these actions in my lifetime (which may last anywhere from 1 second to 100 or so years) will determine whether I spend eternity in paradise or everlasting torment. No, I'm sorry, I'm not buying that.

Godfree
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Re: Science , Fiction or Fact

Post by Godfree » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:22 pm

[quote="Hanuman"]I first "crossed-over" to seriously doubting the existence of God, one night when I was on acid, back in college. Since then, I've taken the brain, I was told was given to me by my creator, and done my best to come to some sort of conclusion on the subject. SPOILER ALERT: God hasn't been winning.


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

could god be the devil and just tricking the simple humans ,,,Mu hahahaha
my favourite quote is from before christ ,
a common man sees religion as true
a wise man sees religion as false
and a politician sees religion as useful .
were a bit slow on the uptake aren't we ,,???

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